Wickednesse

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Psymon
Posts: 130
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:50 pm

Wickednesse

Postby Psymon » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:43 pm

Hey folks, here's my very first font! Or not quite my first, really -- I'd made a fairly simple font of my own handwriting (printing) about a decade ago or so, and then started to work on this Wickednesse font but didn't get very far. I picked it up again last November, though, and have been working on it -- and learning a LOT in the process -- since then. This is the first "real" font I ever made, though, where I actually endeavoured to have a clue what on earth I was doing with type design. ;)

I think I'm pretty much done working on it now -- although every time I think that, I seem to find little things that need fixing up. One thing that I am rather unsure about are the some of the things in the "Identification" tab in the font Properties. A typophile friend of mine said that my font should be considered "bold," based on how it looks -- but I have no additional "regular" version, this is the only one there is, so wouldn't this be "regular"?

As for "Width" and "Weight," I have no idea what to put there, how one judges that -- or whether those, too, should just simply be left as "normal" (as per the above).

Anyway, attached here is my font for your perusal, and below are also a bunch of samples I made for a PDF that I was putting together for/about this font (incidentally, the quotation in the last image is from the original 1561 text that was the basis for this font). Please do fire away with your critiques/criticisms of it, not to mention any suggestions for improvements (like, say, additional ligs that might be worthwhile, or anything else)! :)

Wickednesse 02 - Basic Latin.jpg
Wickednesse 02 - Basic Latin.jpg (306.64 KiB) Viewed 219 times


Wickednesse 03 - Punctuation.jpg
Wickednesse 03 - Punctuation.jpg (266.16 KiB) Viewed 219 times


Wickednesse 04 - Latin Supplement.jpg
Wickednesse 04 - Latin Supplement.jpg (349.67 KiB) Viewed 219 times


Wickednesse 05 - Ligatures.jpg
Wickednesse 05 - Ligatures.jpg (318.21 KiB) Viewed 219 times


Wickednesse 06 - Greek & Coptic.jpg
Wickednesse 06 - Greek & Coptic.jpg (309.97 KiB) Viewed 219 times


Wickednesse 07 - Cyrillic.jpg
Wickednesse 07 - Cyrillic.jpg (331.45 KiB) Viewed 219 times


Wickednesse 08 - Currency.jpg
Wickednesse 08 - Currency.jpg (270.07 KiB) Viewed 219 times


Wickednesse 09 - Symbols.jpg
Wickednesse 09 - Symbols.jpg (285.79 KiB) Viewed 219 times


Wickednesse 10 - Numbers.jpg
Wickednesse 10 - Numbers.jpg (309.17 KiB) Viewed 219 times


Wickednesse 11 - Pangrams.jpg
Wickednesse 11 - Pangrams.jpg (348.29 KiB) Viewed 219 times


Wickednesse 12 - Any to Zanily.jpg
Wickednesse 12 - Any to Zanily.jpg (353.77 KiB) Viewed 219 times


Wickednesse 13 - Lorem Ipsum.jpg
Wickednesse 13 - Lorem Ipsum.jpg (372.22 KiB) Viewed 219 times


Wickednesse 14 - Wickednesse Quote.jpg
Wickednesse 14 - Wickednesse Quote.jpg (401.91 KiB) Viewed 219 times
Attachments
Wickednesse.ttf
(850.13 KiB) Downloaded 8 times

Psymon
Posts: 130
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:50 pm

Re: Wickednesse

Postby Psymon » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:26 pm

What the fudge -- my uppercase "H" is up too high off the baseline. I thought I fixed that! Oh well. If anyone sees anything else funny going on like that (or anything else), please do let me know! :roll:

Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Wickednesse

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:55 pm

Psymon wrote:What the fudge -- my uppercase "H" is up too high off the baseline. I thought I fixed that! Oh well. If anyone sees anything else funny going on like that (or anything else), please do let me know! :roll:

Tell me about it. I am currently editing Guru (again), which has gone through numerous updates since 2008, but I am still finding ridiculous bugs.

A couple of suggestions:

Add a lining figures feature to make use of the glyphs that you have already designed. This lookup can be used:

Code: Select all

lookup SingleSubstitution2 {
  sub zero -> uniE6A8;
  sub one -> uniE6A9;
  sub two -> uniE6AA;
  sub three -> uniE6AB;
  sub four -> uniE6AC;
  sub five -> uniE6AD;
  sub six -> uniE6AE;
  sub seven -> uniE6AF;
  sub eight -> uniE6B0;
  sub nine -> uniE6B1;
}

Kerning values for f still need some TLC. Use this Text in the preview toolbar to spot the problem pairs.

Code: Select all

fafbfcfdfeffgfhfifjfkflfmfnfofpfqfrfsftfufvfwfxfyfzf
My FontsReviews: MainTypeFont CreatorHelpFC10.1 Pro + MT7.0 @ Win10 1703

Psymon
Posts: 130
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:50 pm

Re: Wickednesse

Postby Psymon » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:23 pm

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Add a lining figures feature to make use of the glyphs that you have already designed. This lookup can be used:

Code: Select all

lookup SingleSubstitution2 {
  sub zero -> uniE6A8;
  sub one -> uniE6A9;
  sub two -> uniE6AA;
  sub three -> uniE6AB;
  sub four -> uniE6AC;
  sub five -> uniE6AD;
  sub six -> uniE6AE;
  sub seven -> uniE6AF;
  sub eight -> uniE6B0;
  sub nine -> uniE6B1;
}


Is this for the alt (non-oldstyle) numerals I have? What's a "lining figure" do?

And what do I do with that bit of code -- copy/paste it into the code editor? Does it matter where, or just anywhere at all? I've never worked in the code there (not for fonts, anyway -- I've worked in HTML/CSS code for decades now for the web and ebooks, but that's totally different, of course).

Kerning values for f still need some TLC. Use this Text in the preview toolbar to spot the problem pairs.

Code: Select all

fafbfcfdfeffgfhfifjfkflfmfnfofpfqfrfsftfufvfwfxfyfzf


Thanks! Exactly the kind of suggestion(s) I was hoping for -- at least if/when things don't look right, of course. I'm a bit "afraid" of kerning, though, I must admit. As my font is now, everything validates perfectly (including in the code editor), but it seems like any time I start doing any additional kerning, I end up with overlapping classes (even when I'm careful!) and that ruins everything. I think kerning just doesn't like me very much. :cry:

Also, looking at these various images again I see that several of my uppercase letters are too high off the baseline -- some almost unnoticeably, but nevertheless. I'm kicking myself for not seeing that before fixing that up and posting everything here. :roll:

Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Wickednesse

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:39 pm

Psymon wrote:Is this for the alt (non-oldstyle) numerals I have? What's a "lining figure" do?

Lining figures align with the top of capitals (approximately)
Psymon wrote:And what do I do with that bit of code -- copy/paste it into the code editor? Does it matter where, or just anywhere at all?

It matters a lot.

1. Add a Lining Figures Feature to the Default Language (Green [+] button)
Add Feature.png
Add Feature.png (22.45 KiB) Viewed 208 times

Add a Single Substitution Lookup for Lining Figures (Green [+] button)
Add Lookup to Feature.png
Add Lookup to Feature.png (14.9 KiB) Viewed 208 times

Add substitutions manually to the lookup, or open the Code Editor from the icon at the top, and paste my lookup table code. The names of the lookup table must match or you will get an error.
Open Code Editor for Lookup.png
Open Code Editor for Lookup.png (28.99 KiB) Viewed 208 times

Psymon wrote:Exactly the kind of suggestion(s) I was hoping for -- at least if/when things don't look right, of course. I'm a bit "afraid" of kerning, though, I must admit.

Don't use the code editor, but use the Visual OpenType Designer. Search the pair adjustment lookup for pairs beginning with "f" simply by typing "f" then see which pairs need adjustment. Use the left/right cursor keys to adjust the kerning values manually. FontCreator gets it wrong in some cases.

Edit: The problems I spotted were mostly because you used ligatures instead of kerning pairs. As long as standard ligatures are supported and enabled, kerning pairs won't be used.
My FontsReviews: MainTypeFont CreatorHelpFC10.1 Pro + MT7.0 @ Win10 1703

Psymon
Posts: 130
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:50 pm

Re: Wickednesse

Postby Psymon » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:48 pm

Thanks, Bhikkhu (once again)! Do you, like, have all these screenshots handy already all the time when you post? Either way, your efforts are greatly appreciated! :)

I'll check all that out later -- I'm desperately in need of a nap at the moment. ;) Should I re-post my revised font as a new comment, or should I just edit my original post and swap out the new(er) font there once I'm done? I'm not sure what the usual practice is here in this forum.

Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Wickednesse

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:58 pm

Psymon wrote:Should I re-post my revised font as a new comment, or should I just edit my original post and swap out the new(er) font there once I'm done? I'm not sure what the usual practice is here in this forum.

I would edit the first post to remove and update the attachment, then post a new reply to bump the thread and tell us what you did.
My FontsReviews: MainTypeFont CreatorHelpFC10.1 Pro + MT7.0 @ Win10 1703

Psymon
Posts: 130
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:50 pm

Re: Wickednesse

Postby Psymon » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:10 am

Thanks! I'll get back to you on that (updating the font). :)

In the meantime, though, do you -- or anyone else -- perhaps know the answer to the question(s) I posed in my original post? Here's what I'd written/asked about...

Psymon wrote:One thing that I am rather unsure about are the some of the things in the "Identification" tab in the font Properties. A typophile friend of mine said that my font should be considered "bold," based on how it looks -- but I have no additional "regular" version, this is the only one there is, so wouldn't this be "regular"?

As for "Width" and "Weight," I have no idea what to put there, how one judges that -- or whether those, too, should just simply be left as "normal" (as per the above).

Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Wickednesse

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:59 am

Psymon wrote:One thing that I am rather unsure about are the some of the things in the "Identification" tab in the font Properties. A typophile friend of mine said that my font should be considered "bold," based on how it looks -- but I have no additional "regular" version, this is the only one there is, so wouldn't this be "regular"?

My Cankama font is a "Regular" style.
Psymon wrote:Do you, like, have all these screenshots handy already all the time when you post?

I have FastStone Capture installed. It loads on starting Windows, so it's always ready to use.
My FontsReviews: MainTypeFont CreatorHelpFC10.1 Pro + MT7.0 @ Win10 1703

Psymon
Posts: 130
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:50 pm

Re: Wickednesse

Postby Psymon » Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:12 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:My Cankama font is a "Regular" style.


Well, perhaps we're both wrong -- ha ha. ;) Like I said, I assumed that mine would be "regular" because it's the only weight for my font, but at the same time it does look rather "bold" (more so than your Cankama, although that's a blackletter-style font, too). I'm taking it for granted that I (and you) are both right about our fonts being "regular," but my other typophile friend's assertion that it should be bold has me wondering.

I'm also clueless about that "weight" option there in the font properties -- I don't know what number to choose, let alone how that's determined.

Do you know? The help files were of no, well, help. :roll:

I have FastStone Capture installed. It loads on starting Windows, so it's always ready to use.


I have that, too -- great little screencapture program! It's extremely kind of you to go to such efforts to help people out here, Bhikkhu (and for all these many, many years, no less). :)

Psymon
Posts: 130
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:50 pm

Re: Wickednesse

Postby Psymon » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:32 am

Oh, I only just noticed your edit from earlier...

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Edit: The problems I spotted were mostly because you used ligatures instead of kerning pairs. As long as standard ligatures are supported and enabled, kerning pairs won't be used.


Oh, that changes everything, if my kerning of my regular "f" glyph is okay (as I had thought it was). Indeed, it's all those various f-ligatures and longs-ligatures that I had really wanted to kern, but which kept giving me overlapping classes when I did. I know what my mistake was now, that I was basically just adding in my lig plus whichever other single character next to it, when there was already a class for the latter, but it's having to search through all those tons of classes in search of, say, an "a" (or whatever) that was a pain -- although I guess ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

However, this is EXACTLY the reason why it would be nice if one could include those glyphs (selectively) from one's PUA when you run autokern! Autokern could do within moments what would otherwise be a possibly hours-long, tedious chore. :(

I really don't understand why there's no way to include glyphs from the PUA (selectively) when you autokern. Erwin, are you listening? ;)

honest.bern
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Re: Wickednesse

Postby honest.bern » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:30 pm

If you would like a pernickety comment, I would say that the cyrillic "л" and "д" look a bit modern. I don't think the flat-topped versions appeared until the mid nineteenth century: until then I think they were still triangular.
However, if you have a Euro I can't really complain about anachronisms (and this is your font, after all).

The important thing is that there are not enough blackletter fonts around. Keep up the good work!

Psymon
Posts: 130
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:50 pm

Re: Wickednesse

Postby Psymon » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:51 pm

Hey, Bern, thanks so much for your comments and kind words about my font! Yeah, you're probably right about my Cyrillic, but I haven't got the first clue about that -- let alone Greek/Coptic (other than being familiar with some of the more "popular" characters, like pi and omega or whatever). I was just making those up as I went along, looking at -- as you say -- various different modern versions of each glyph and then trying to come up with something based on the style of the Latin characters.

However, with that said, I should say that I also did a little bit of research into this while working on those, looking at what Cyrillic writing looked like around the same time period (16th century) as the main font is in the book I scanned those from -- and in many ways it was almost unrecognizable as the same alphabet! And so that's why/how I ended up just saying to heck with it, and I'll just make up something on my own, even if it's not very "authentic." ;)

But I do appreciate your comments on that aspect, actually! If only because I have no clue at all about Cyrillic (etc.) writing, I was actually hoping for a little feedback on those. I can't be bothered right now -- my only real concern is getting the main Latin glyphs to look (and kern!), etc. okay -- but who knows, perhaps some day down the road I'll try to do a better job on those other character sets. :)


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