Petite Capitals script

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Petite Capitals script

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:13 am

Leon Gauthier wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:30 am
So, "complete composites" may be seen as a weapon of mass de-construction because it blindly overwrites prior creations.
There is always undo if the result is not what you expect. New users should read the tutorial. Having spent hundreds of hours writing tutorials in my free time I am not very sympathetic to users who don't even read the help topic on Complete Composites
  • The selected glyph(s) must be defined in the composite data file; either known by Unicode code-point or by glyph name.
  • If the selected glyph(s) are empty or simple they will be replaced wherever composites are defined. Do not include simple glyphs in your selection if you don't wish to replace them with composites.
  • If the selected glyph(s) are already composites they will be replaced only if the composite glyph members are different, not if their positions or scale factors are different.
  • All composite members must be present in the font. If any composite members are mapped, but still empty, the composite glyph will be completed, though obviously missing the contours that have not been defined yet.
Yes, your "fix" looks good and there are only a few items I might question but the main thing I am interested in now is why your accents came out where the are supposed to and when I run the PCPU script, they are all above the capital height. As you instructed, I had placed mine at exactly the same height you had yours. In fact, in one attempt I actually copied your accents into my project and they still went through the roof.
Accents over lowercase and Petite Capitals are not moved vertically. If accents over capitals are moving up more than expected, check your x-height and CapsHeight in Font Properties, Metrics. As noted above the accents should move up by 410 funits. If you have changed the funits/em setting, the metrics may need to be recalculated.
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Leon Gauthier
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Re: Petite Capitals script

Post by Leon Gauthier » Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:12 pm

Bhikkhu, as I am sure that everyone else here who has benefited from your ready sharing of your vast expertise in typography will agree, I really do appreciate the time and effort you have put into helping each of us learn this new craft. I also understand your frustration with those of us who might not quite "get it" when we read manuals or watch silent videos trying desperately to follow a tiny cursor flitting about the screen in a futile effort to unravel the mysteries of some new software. In the past, I too lost my patience with co-workers who constantly asked me what the Standard Specifications said on a particular matter (apparently, it was easier to ask than it was to read) or complained that my software programs did not function properly. However, it was often those very same "dummies" who could not follow directions who uncovered flaws in my software or revealed ambiguities in the Standard Specifications. So, bear in mind that we dummies are doing our part to make you even better.

I have read the manuals, looked at tutorials and the help topics all of my life but I am a hands-on sort of fellow and I have to "do it" in order to learn it. So, I'll read about a certain function, what it does and how it does it, but it all remains Greek to me until I actually do it and see what was actually meant in the function's description. Perhaps one of the most difficult dilemmas to resolve is to replace the expectations, which grew out your own understanding of the descriptions and instructions, with the actuality of the outcome. In other words, you must learn the true meanings of a new language and let go of all that you thought it meant.

Bhikkhu said:
Accents over lowercase and Petite Capitals are not moved vertically.
Perhaps a little ambiguity here. Prior to "complete composites" there are no "accents over lowercase", they have yet to be placed. As I understand it, the "placement" is dictated by the accent's own properties. In addition to size, shape and orientation, all of the accents have a defined x and y position in a space shared by every glyph. All of my accents are resting on a guide line @ y=1073 (117 funits above the x-height). None of the low profile accents, or any part of them, extend beyond the CapsHeight while some of the "normal" accents actually do.
LP accent40.png
LP accent40.png (14.61 KiB) Viewed 667 times
After running the PCPU script, all of the low profile accents on the newly minted "small uppercase" glyphs have a y position value of (drum roll please) 410.
Small uppercase U40.png
Small uppercase U40.png (16.56 KiB) Viewed 667 times
One might correctly state that "Accents over lowercase and Petite Capitals have been moved vertically."

PS In writing this, I think a relatively easy solution has occurred to me :idea:

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Re: Petite Capitals script

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:53 pm

What you need to understand is that it is not my software. I objected to your comment about a weapon of mass de-construction, which was a direct result of not reading the online help. If you don't wish to compose composites for existing simple glyphs do not select them.
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Re: Petite Capitals script

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:10 pm

Leon Gauthier wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:12 pm
Bhikkhu said:
Accents over lowercase and Petite Capitals are not moved vertically.
Perhaps a little ambiguity here. Prior to "complete composites" there are no "accents over lowercase", they have yet to be placed.
...
PS In writing this, I think a relatively easy solution has occurred to me :idea:
Accents over lowercase are positioned horizontally; accents over Uppercase are positioned both horizontally and vertically.

The reasons why yours move up over Petite Capitals and mine do not is due to different versions of UnicodeData.txt

I reported this to Erwin to see if it's a bug not to include the modified UnicodeData.txt in a standard installation. (Edit: I searched the Beta forum and found that it was intentional to include only the standard UnicodeData.txt file from Unicoode.org. This file is updated for each Unicode version update to add definitions for new glyphs, or include other changes).

As a permanent solution, I suggested deleting the AppData version of UnicodeData.txt if you have one and saving the version from the linked thread in AppData\FontCreator\Unicode. That UnicodeData.txt file defines Petite Capitals as lowercase. The modified Blocks.txt file simplifies the Insert Character dialogue if you don't use CJK etc.

The easy solution that you alluded to is to temporarily edit CapsHeight to equal x-height before inserting the Petite Capitals with the Transform script. Then recalculate the metrics afterwards.

Later versions of FontCreator include Unmapped Transform scripts. Since they use no code-points, some problems like the above are avoided. However, the unmapped glyphs can only be used by applications that support the relevant OpenType features.

All of this information is documented already (mostly by me), but I admit that it is hard to find it. Over the years I have provided a lot of free support, but I use the software much less frequently now as I now have all the fonts that I need. I test each new version of FontCreator and update my own fonts when bugs are found.
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Leon Gauthier
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Re: Petite Capitals script

Post by Leon Gauthier » Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:32 am

Well, setting the cap-height to the x-height and setting the x-height 30% lower than original was not enough to get the petite caps accents positioned just above the original x-height when the PCPU script was run... they all went above the original cap-height. Are there other settings which need changing in order to get this trick to work?

I finally eliminated the "undefined" status of the Ẽ … and I think it was by adding both e's to the glyphlist.dat which did the trick.

Looking at the Low Profile Diacritics.xml, it seems to me that 183 middledot, 184 cedilla, 789 comma aboveright and 806 commabelow should also be included since these also need to be scaled down for the petite glyphs.

I tried the files you pointed to here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1793&p=34518#p36927
but it seems that they are not what you intended … they are dated 06/21/2017 and while they did alter the PUA listing, they did not seem to eliminate the small caps accent problem I will try them one more time.

Leon Gauthier
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Re: Petite Capitals script

Post by Leon Gauthier » Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:37 am

I got it to work!!! Setting the caps-height to match the x-height put the accents where they belong. And, the 08/01/17 files gave the only result which had no unrecognized glyphs. However, they yielded no breakdown of the PUC in the outline … it appeared that the attempt to name glyphs in the PUA started in 06/21/2017 was abandoned.

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Re: Petite Capitals script

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:40 am

Leon Gauthier wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:32 am
Are there other settings which need changing in order to get this trick to work?
It works for me. Not sure what is wrong at your end.
I finally eliminated the "undefined" status of the Ẽ … and I think it was by adding both e's to the glyphlist.dat which did the trick.
Ẽ and ẽ were defined for Latin Extended Additional. If you want these Vietnamese glyphs in Petite Capitals too, you will need to add definitions to CompositeData.xml and UnicodeData.txt
Looking at the Low Profile Diacritics.xml, it seems to me that 183 middledot, 184 cedilla, 789 comma aboveright and 806 commabelow should also be included since these also need to be scaled down for the petite glyphs.
Edit the transform script to extend the range from 57365-57376 to 57365-57382. The Low Pofrile Accents transform script was not updated to match the updates I made to CompositeData.xml.

Middledot is not needed since CompositeData.xml uses lowprofiledotaccent (dot above) to compose L middle-dot. Petite Capitals with cedilla accent scale the cedilla accent by 80% so a lowprofilecedilla is not needed. Comma above right is not scaled for Petite Capital L commabove right so CompositeData.xml should perhaps be updated to scale that by 80% too.
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Leon Gauthier
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Re: Petite Capitals script

Post by Leon Gauthier » Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:18 pm

Yes, I had examined CompositeData.xml to extract a new list of Low Profile Diacritics because I thought the middle dot was too large at one point in my thousand iterations! I noticed that 184 (middle dot) was missing from the collection of low profile diacritics so that had to be the cause … now I see that you are using 57377 in the Small capital l middle dot composition which is the scaled version of 729, dot accent. Anyway, now we have what I wanted, all three dots, above middle and below, the same diameter.

Yes, 789 commaaboveright and 806 commabelow both need to be scaled down somehow. Maybe use 57382 for both?

I do not know how you can keep track of this interconnected tangle of glyphs and files.

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Re: Petite Capitals script

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:47 pm

Leon Gauthier wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:18 pm
I do not know how you can keep track of this interconnected tangle of glyphs and files.
The truth is I don't. I just fix problems when I come across them. I usually cannot remember why I made a particular decision five years ago, or why I changed something two years later to improve it.

It is better for users to make the changes that they want for their own needs. I added the lowprofilecommabelow for "Small capital l caron" with commaaboveright as a fallback glyph.

Code: Select all

	<GlyphMapping>57382</GlyphMapping>
		<GlyphMapping>789</GlyphMapping>
I have updated CompositeData.7z on the Tutorial thread. I have also updated the tutorial thread on Glyph Transformations with a few new scripts and the updated scripts for Pow Profile Diacritics and Petite Capitals in the PUA.
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Leon Gauthier
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Re: Petite Capitals script

Post by Leon Gauthier » Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:41 pm

I am sorry to be such a dummy but I have already spent 30 min. trying to find "...the tutorial thread on Glyph Transformations"
Please help

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Re: Petite Capitals script

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:50 pm

It's right at the top of the Tutorials Forum now.

Working with Transformations
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Leon Gauthier
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Re: Petite Capitals script

Post by Leon Gauthier » Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:04 pm

Thanks
I added the unicode ranges listed in your tutorial pdf (updating the Low Profile Diacritics range) to the Blocks.txt file. I find those PUA ranges in the outline view helpful. I noticed that the 06/21/2017 unicode.dat had an individual glyph listing (E000-F206) which is no longer in the 08/01/2017 listing. Do you know why they were removed? Are they accurate? (they seem not to be, listing the Low Profile grave @ E015) There are over 800 entries for the PUA that are missing in later versions. Beyond this PUA range, both data files continue with stuff which is of no interest to me presently.

While I have your attention … do you know why my .notdef boxed question mark glyph has stopped displaying for glyphs not found in the font? It worked for a while after I created it but no longer.

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Re: Petite Capitals script

Post by Leon Gauthier » Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:31 pm

Damn, after posting that question about the individual listings in the PUA, I open FC to find that it is now listing the glyph names in the PUA which had gone missing. I have too many copies of these various files and somehow got them crossed up. I will have to sort them out, sorry.

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Re: Petite Capitals script

Post by Leon Gauthier » Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:03 pm

After an exhaustive examination, I concluded: retain ArabicShaping.txt and Scripts.txt from UnicodeData AUG 2017.zip (file dates 08/01/17).
Overwrite Blocks.txt (the one I had just so proudly added to) and UnicodeData.txt with UnicodeData AUG 18 2018.zip (file dates 06/21/17)
These last two files had more complete listings than their "newer" counterparts!

Problem is, now small capital E tilde is no longer recognized!!!
Previously, I had added that glyph to CompositeData.xml and now it is not there!!! As far as I know, I have not touched this file since I added this glyph. I added it again and it is still unrecognized.

I am going nuts here!

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Re: Petite Capitals script

Post by Leon Gauthier » Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:37 am

CompositeData.xml
resolve multiple copies

Version 08 was Updated 25th August 2018
Version 07 was Updated 30th July 2018

The Current version has the E tilde (Ẽ) definition which I just added and version 08 lacks it.
Version 07 is missing a line @ 45323 which 08 has. ∴ the 08 version
is the most recent.
Action:
Leave current as active
Discard 07
Mark 08 as most recent
Keep a file containing all changes I make so I can add them to the next revision from FC

Hmmm... Somehow, I don't think that this is going to work out very well!!!

Besides, I am not so sure that this is why Ẽ is no longer recognized. All this started with me revising Blocks.txt and Ẽ is present in Blocks.txt and UnicodeData.txt

So, I have one question, "Where are glyphs defined, exactly?"

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