Version 15: Several features worked better in version 13

[Alexander Lange]

Hi,

I have updated my FontCreator from version 13 to 15 around a month ago, and while I do like a lot of the changes, I'm still struggling with some others:

1. It seems not possible any more to create .otf fonts using the export (see viewtopic.php?t=9294)?
2. The cutting tool used to show the start and end point and the angle in the status bar at the bottom which was very useful. It does not show anything any more now. It would also snap to points in point editing mode which does not work any more.
3. The union, intersection and exclusion features worked better before. There was always the issue that they would sometimes just delete one of the contours, but it used to get better with every version until 13. In 15, it happens more often again. For example if you have a circle and a rectangle overlapping, with the same x coordinate on their leftmost point, union and exclusion will always delete the rectangle.
4. Working with composite glyphs used to be easier and more obvious: In the glyph editor window, it is hard to tell if the glyph even is a composite unless you double click somewhere, which results in
   • point edit mode if the glyph is simple
   • jumping to the member glyph if the glyph was a composite and you hit a member (with no obvious way to jump back)
   • no reaction at all if the glyph is a composite and you hit the background.
   This behaviour does make sense, but it is hard to predict if there is no visual indicator beforehand. (I haven't tried mixed glyphs so far.)
5. Also in composite glyphs, I miss the Use this glyph's metrics checkbox in the member properties panel. I understand that I can use the member glyph's name in the LSB and RSB fields, but jumping to the member to copy its name, then navigate back to the composite and paste the name twice is much more tedious than just ticking a box. Also, since all my already existing composite glyphs display numbers in these fields and not member names, I guess I have lost this connection everywhere with the update?

The other issues I had encountered have already been fixed in minor updates.

But #1 makes updating my font impossible, and #2 and #3 can be pretty annoying sometimes. Is it possible to install FontCreator 13 in parallel? And if yes, is there a download link for the installer somewhere? Unfortunately I had overwritten the installer .exe with the new one, not expecting I'd be interested in the older version again.

Kind regards,
Alexander Lange

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

1. There is no real difference between *.otf or *ttf fonts. Just rename the extension as you wish.
2. Confirmed, and agreed. There is a significant loss of functionality here.
3. I see the same disappearing rectangle in FC13 as in FC15.
4. The glyph's composite/simple status is shown in the glyph edit window title bar.
   “Elements -> supports outlines with both components and contours, so called hybrid outlines” (I am not sure of the significance of this, but that explains why the points are shown when a glyph component is selected).
5. Confirmed

[Alexander Lange]

Thank you for the quick reply!

About #1: That's a great relief and changes this from a breaking bug to a minor inconvenience. I knew the glyph data format was the same, but I thought there might be some differences in the metadata or something like that.

About #3: My impression during the last month was that it happened more often than I was used to. But I have never edited the exact same shapes with both versions, so there is no guarantee. It may just be statistical variation.

About #4: You are right, it shows in the title. I didn't pay attention to the top left corner as I have the property and transform panel on the right side and have never really needed the information in the title before. It seems that this update requires quite some changes in users' habits too.

[Erwin Denissen]

1. It seems not possible any more to create .otf fonts using the export (see viewtopic.php?t=9294)?

As Bhikkhu Pesala already pointed out, this is just a misunderstanding.

2. The cutting tool used to show the start and end point and the angle in the status bar at the bottom which was very useful. It does not show anything any more now. It would also snap to points in point editing mode which does not work any more.

We will see if we can fix this asap.

3. The union, intersection and exclusion features worked better before. There was always the issue that they would sometimes just delete one of the contours, but it used to get better with every version until 13. In 15, it happens more often again. For example if you have a circle and a rectangle overlapping, with the same x coordinate on their leftmost point, union and exclusion will always delete the rectangle.

We have made numerous improvements here, but I can indeed conform this issue. We will try to fix it as well.

4. Working with composite glyphs used to be easier and more obvious: In the glyph editor window, it is hard to tell if the glyph even is a composite unless you double click somewhere, which results in

• point edit mode if the glyph is simple
• jumping to the member glyph if the glyph was a composite and you hit a member (with no obvious way to jump back)
• no reaction at all if the glyph is a composite and you hit the background.

This behaviour does make sense, but it is hard to predict if there is no visual indicator beforehand. (I haven't tried mixed glyphs so far.)

Yes, we also feel it is not as intuitive as we want it to be, so please continue to provide feedback, so we can come up with a better way of working with components.

5. Also in composite glyphs, I miss the Use this glyph's metrics checkbox in the member properties panel. I understand that I can use the member glyph's name in the LSB and RSB fields, but jumping to the member to copy its name, then navigate back to the composite and paste the name twice is much more tedious than just ticking a box. Also, since all my already existing composite glyphs display numbers in these fields and not member names, I guess I have lost this connection everywhere with the update?

I would highly recommend to use Auto Attach along with anchors. That way you know for sure metrics are in sync and the marks are positioned correctly. If you don't want to use Auto attach, then simple provide base() as value for LSB and AW.

The other issues I had encountered have already been fixed in minor updates.

We continue to improve the software and fix (reported) issues, so thank you for sharing your portion!

Is it possible to install FontCreator 13 in parallel? And if yes, is there a download link for the installer somewhere? Unfortunately I had overwritten the installer .exe with the new one, not expecting I'd be interested in the older version again.

Yes, but it is not that straightforward, as most people prefer the new version overrides the older version.

You can download older versions from here:
https://www.high-logic.com/registration-codes

To install a version to a specific folder use a Command Prompt like this:

Code: Select all

FontCreatorSetup-x6413.0.0.2683.exe /DIR="C:\Program Files\High-Logic FontCreator 13"

[Erwin Denissen]

2. The cutting tool used to show the start and end point and the angle in the status bar at the bottom which was very useful. It does not show anything any more now. It would also snap to points in point editing mode which does not work any more.

We will see if we can fix this asap.

We have fixed this problem with the latest update we just released.

3. The union, intersection and exclusion features worked better before. There was always the issue that they would sometimes just delete one of the contours, but it used to get better with every version until 13. In 15, it happens more often again. For example if you have a circle and a rectangle overlapping, with the same x coordinate on their leftmost point, union and exclusion will always delete the rectangle.

We have made numerous improvements here, but I can indeed conform this issue. We will try to fix it as well.

We have further improved the algorithm, so do let us know your results.

[Alexander Lange]

Thank you very much, these two fixes are very helpful. I could not reproduce the union/intersection/exclusion issue on any glyph I tested this morning.

The question how to make working with components more intuitive is not an easy one, but I have an idea that might help: There is a menu that lets us select the opacity of the shape fillings. Perhaps there could be an option to color components differently, e.g. in blue.
And for the case of accidentally jumping to a glyph member, it would be great to have a "Back" button like in a browser. It would be similar to the "Previous glyph" button, but take you to the last opened glyph instead. It would be especially handy if it also worked with the forward and back buttons that many mouses have nowadays.

I have another observation regarding the improved image import and "Optimize contours" features: Generally, they indeed work better than before, i.e. they produce good results with fewer points. Good job on this one!
However, "Optimize contours" now sometimes deletes a single off-curve point that was actually needed for the curvature. Most of the times this happens on imperfect circle-ish shapes (like the ones you get when pasting a pixel image of a circle). In this case it often (but not always) flattens the upper left part.
The simplest glyph I could reproduce this with is an outlined square with rounded corners (see attached image) where it flattens the lower left corner of the inner contour.

Missing point.png (22.66 KiB) Viewed 6582 times

I think that in this example the optimizer should not make any changes as I believe that this shape is not possible with fewer points.

[Erwin Denissen]

Thank you very much, these two fixes are very helpful. I could not reproduce the union/intersection/exclusion issue on any glyph I tested this morning.

Thank you for letting us know!

The question how to make working with components more intuitive is not an easy one, but I have an idea that might help: There is a menu that lets us select the opacity of the shape fillings. Perhaps there could be an option to color components differently, e.g. in blue.
And for the case of accidentally jumping to a glyph member, it would be great to have a "Back" button like in a browser. It would be similar to the "Previous glyph" button, but take you to the last opened glyph instead. It would be especially handy if it also worked with the forward and back buttons that many mouses have nowadays.

This might work, but we prefer to wait and collect some more user feedback before implementing this. Might just showing the component's glyph name also work on selecting a component?

I have another observation regarding the improved image import and "Optimize contours" features: Generally, they indeed work better than before, i.e. they produce good results with fewer points. Good job on this one!
However, "Optimize contours" now sometimes deletes a single off-curve point that was actually needed for the curvature.

We have just released another update that should fix this issue.

[Alexander Lange]

We have just released another update that should fix this issue.

It seems to happen less frequently now, but still sometimes. With the glyph in the screenshot I posted above it is still reproducible.

[Erwin Denissen]

It seems to happen less frequently now, but still sometimes. With the glyph in the screenshot I posted above it is still reproducible.

Good to know it is improved!

It really helps if you provide a font project with the specific outline, so we can test your posted issue.

[Alexander Lange]

Sure. Here we go:

[Erwin Denissen]

I think it is now all fixed with this release:

https://www.high-logic.com/tmp/fontcrea ... 46-x64.exe

Do let us know your results!

[Alexander Lange]

Sorry it took me some time to come back to this, but it works fine. Thank you very much!