Localizable Sentences Experiment font support

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William
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Re: Localizable Sentences Experiment font support

Post by William » Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:16 am

On Friday, 2 December 2011 I uploaded a pdf, named locse021_three_simulations.pdf, as an attachment to a post in this thread.

I have noticed that every time that I post in this thread the number of recorded views of the thread goes up over a day or so by about ten to twenty, yet I am puzzled that nobody seems to have looked at the locse021_three_simulations.pdf document as yet.

At the time of writing this note, the message with the attachment is as follows.

Downloaded 2 times

As far as I know, the forum counts a direct viewing as a download.

The two recorded downloads are as a result of me viewing the file online to check that all is well and as a result of me downloading the file to local storage and then displaying it from there, so as to check that all is well.

I am puzzled because people seem to quickly look at the thread when I add a new post, so my posts are not being ignored, yet as far as I know, nobody has looked at the attachment.

There used to be a situation that Search Engine Bots were accessing the forums and inflating the view counts, though I am under the impression that that was changed some time ago so that only genuine views by a human are recorded.

Whilst recognizing that people may simply be exercising a choice not to look at the attachment, I am wondering if there is perhaps a perceived issue that opening a pdf could pose a virus or trojan threat of some sort.

As I say, I am pussled that the thread gets a good number of views yet the pdf is not being viewed.

Any thoughts on this please?

William Overington

7 December 2011

vanisaac
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Re: Localizable Sentences Experiment font support

Post by vanisaac » Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:58 pm

I always check this thread to see if you will ever come to the point. The problem is, I never see anything that looks like a philosophical basis for, well, anything. You devise all of these glyphs that you somehow imbue with meaning, but from the outside, it just looks like randomness, coupled with healthy doses of unfettered utopianism and unconscious Anglo-centrism. As far as I can tell, there has never been an effort on your part to actually examine what kind of scheme will actually be helpful and useful, nor the best form that such a scheme would take. I look at your glyphs and writings and wonder why a small, standardized set of Chinese characters, with a few additional conventions, couldn't do what you want to do, with the advantage that a billion and a half people in east Asia would basically already know the system. Until such a time as I see serious evidence of reflection, I honestly couldn't care about the shapes of glyphs or the newest domain that you've decided to tackle.

William
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Re: Localizable Sentences Experiment font support

Post by William » Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:20 pm

Thank you for taking the time to reply. Your response is helpful as it provides a view of how someone other than myself views my research.

Although you do not explicitly say so, I get the impression that I need not be concerned about you having any concerns about looking at the pdf from a perspective of wariness about viruses and trojans. I get the impression that if you thought that what is in the pdf might be worth looking at, then you would look at it and be happy to view a pdf that is a forum attachment? Is that correct?
vanisaac wrote:I always check this thread to see if you will ever come to the point. The problem is, I never see anything that looks like a philosophical basis for, well, anything. You devise all of these glyphs that you somehow imbue with meaning, but from the outside, it just looks like randomness, coupled with healthy doses of unfettered utopianism and unconscious Anglo-centrism.

That is interesting.

You mention "a philosophical basis". I am unsure of what you would need to read in order for you to feel that I have "come to the point". I feel that I might be missing something fundamental here and not have suspected up until now that I am missing it.

I accept that there might be unconscious Anglo-centrism. I am not a linguist, having little more than a basic general education ability in languages, namely mostly some French and some Esperanto. So I accept that there may well be parts of linguistics that I do not know about that interact with my ideas.

This research is essentially interdisciplinary. It involves Infromation and Communications Technology, it involves linguistics and it involves graphic design. Also, it needs specialist involvement from experts in the particular aspect of application. For example, I have devised some sentences about seeking information about relatives and friends after a disaster, so as to be able to show in simulations how the system could work in principle. Yet in order to produce an international standard, experts in disaster management planning would need to design a set of sentences.

My current thinking is that an ISO committee would choose sentences and symbols and then approach the ISO 10646 committee on an inter-committee liason basis to ask for character code points to be assigned to the symbol and sentence pairs.

The symbols are only intended to be used as a fall back situation when automated localization is not available, as in Simulation 3 in the pdf: Simulation 1 and Simulation 2 are both based around the use of automated localization. the simulations need to be in a pdf as the text in some places uses examples that mix symbols and the names of people written in Latin characters. Yet although the pdf is in English, the system could be used for communication through the language barrier from one language to another language where neither of the languages is English, nor even necessarily expressed in the Latin script.

As I say, I am not a linguist. I feel that it needs some linguists to try to use the system and decide whether it works or does not work. The idea is not to try to encode all sentences, the idea is not intended as a general purpose translation facility.

The thing is, though, that if this system or something like it ever becomes codified in, say, plane 7 of the ISO 10646 character code map, then the sentence definitions would be in English, probably English of an en-gb-oed style.
vanisaac wrote: As far as I can tell, there has never been an effort on your part to actually examine what kind of scheme will actually be helpful and useful, nor the best form that such a scheme would take.
Well, I have produced the three simulations. I am open to suggestions of what would be a better scheme for producing such communication through the language barrier.
vanisaac wrote: I look at your glyphs and writings and wonder why a small, standardized set of Chinese characters, with a few additional conventions, couldn't do what you want to do, with the advantage that a billion and a half people in east Asia would basically already know the system.

Well, my reasoning there is that, from what little I know about Chinese, and please correct me if I am wrong, is that the encoded unit is a word and those words need to be marshalled into sentences. With my research, the enocded unit is a whole sentence, with each encoded sentence being required to be grammatically stand-alone.
vanisaac wrote: Until such a time as I see serious evidence of reflection, I honestly couldn't care about the shapes of glyphs or the newest domain that you've decided to tackle.

When you say "domain", I am not certain that I understand. Does domain refer to scenarios such as "the weather" or "seeking information about relatives after a disaster" and so on, or have I misunderstood?

In relation to "serious evidence of reflection", for what are you looking please? I feel that I may be missing something here and that I have therefore not provided something that I need to provide in order to progress my research.

William Overington

7 December 2011

vanisaac
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Re: Localizable Sentences Experiment font support

Post by vanisaac » Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:57 am

William wrote:This research is essentially interdisciplinary. It involves Infromation and Communications Technology, it involves linguistics and it involves graphic design. Also, it needs specialist involvement from experts in the particular aspect of application. For example, I have devised some sentences about seeking information about relatives and friends after a disaster, so as to be able to show in simulations how the system could work in principle. Yet in order to produce an international standard, experts in disaster management planning would need to design a set of sentences
Well, that's part of the problem. I see no research in this project. I've never seen anything about actual cross-linguistic communications in disaster scenarios in all of your work. You have imagined a problem, but hypothesis is the first step in conducting novel research, not the last, and there isn't even a full hypothesis here. Without defining the hypothesis, then testing it, not only do you have no idea how to go about tackling the actual real-world problems of, for example, disaster communications, food alergens, etc., but nobody else is able to repeat any experiments nor come up with their own, let alone create an informed opinion or offer suggestions based on anything but speculation. You describe this as an interdisciplinary project, and I've registered my linguistic concerns about theoretical aspects like color differentiations before, and received little beyond a cursory dismissal. Also, I see no issues of comm. tech or IT addressed. The graphic design aspects seem to be the only ones that you care about, but it's completely irrelevant until there is some evidence that an international auxilliary writing is the most efficient solution to actual real-world problems, and not just speculated situations.
William wrote:My current thinking is that an ISO committee would choose sentences and symbols and then approach the ISO 10646 committee on an inter-committee liason basis to ask for character code points to be assigned to the symbol and sentence pairs.
You seem to be under the mistaken belief that JTC1/SC2/WG2 and the UTC won't touch this because you don't have official status of some sort, but I can and will unequivocally attest to that fact that these committees really don't give a hoot about who you are or where you come from.
William wrote:The symbols are only intended to be used as a fall back situation when automated localization is not available, as in Simulation 3 in the pdf: Simulation 1 and Simulation 2 are both based around the use of automated localization. the simulations need to be in a pdf as the text in some places uses examples that mix symbols and the names of people written in Latin characters. Yet although the pdf is in English, the system could be used for communication through the language barrier from one language to another language where neither of the languages is English, nor even necessarily expressed in the Latin script.
Ok. What makes you think that this is preferable to other localization schemes? It requires billions of people around the world to essentially memorize a large set of symbols, most of which are not used in daily life, on the off chance that they are caught in a disaster scenario in a foreign country without any ability to translate from one of the local languages to one of the languages that you understand. How is that preferable to travelers carrying local phrasebooks and learning a few key sentences in a local language?
William wrote:As I say, I am not a linguist. I feel that it needs some linguists to try to use the system and decide whether it works or does not work. The idea is not to try to encode all sentences, the idea is not intended as a general purpose translation facility.

The thing is, though, that if this system or something like it ever becomes codified in, say, plane 7 of the ISO 10646 character code map, then the sentence definitions would be in English, probably English of an en-gb-oed style.
vanisaac wrote: As far as I can tell, there has never been an effort on your part to actually examine what kind of scheme will actually be helpful and useful, nor the best form that such a scheme would take.
Well, I have produced the three simulations. I am open to suggestions of what would be a better scheme for producing such communication through the language barrier.
I'm sorry, but solutions come after exploring a problem, not before. Otherwise you actually have no idea what the problem is, nor how to devise a solution for it, let alone whether your solution works or not, and by no means are you even in the vicinity of figuring out whether any other solution works better, or whether current solutions are actually preferable.
William wrote:
vanisaac wrote: I look at your glyphs and writings and wonder why a small, standardized set of Chinese characters, with a few additional conventions, couldn't do what you want to do, with the advantage that a billion and a half people in east Asia would basically already know the system.

Well, my reasoning there is that, from what little I know about Chinese, and please correct me if I am wrong, is that the encoded unit is a word and those words need to be marshalled into sentences.
They don't have to be. I can write "桜花?", and pretty much everyone who knows the characters knows that I'm asking whether something is a cherry blossom, and "父 良?" is asking if your father is well, even though those are not even close to grammatical sentences, and there is absolutely no agreed upon convention in place. Imagine what could happen if someone went about actually defining some conventions for using basic CJKV nouns/verbs/adjectives for international auxilliary communication? But as I said, until we actually define the problems we are trying to solve, then actually study the problem to determine its extent, cause, and effect, everything involving a solution is supposition and conjecture.
William wrote: With my research, the enocded unit is a whole sentence, with each encoded sentence being required to be grammatically stand-alone.
And the virtue of that requirement is what, exactly?
William wrote:
vanisaac wrote: Until such a time as I see serious evidence of reflection, I honestly couldn't care about the shapes of glyphs or the newest domain that you've decided to tackle.

When you say "domain", I am not certain that I understand. Does domain refer to scenarios such as "the weather" or "seeking information about relatives after a disaster" and so on, or have I misunderstood?
Nope.
William wrote:In relation to "serious evidence of reflection", for what are you looking please? I feel that I may be missing something here and that I have therefore not provided something that I need to provide in order to progress my research.

William Overington

7 December 2011
Well, actual research would be a good place to start.

-Van


PS, apologies to Erwin for using his boards for straying so far into the "and More" part of this forum.

PPS, I believe strongly in the cause of internationalization and know how much work is still left to be done in encoding minority and historic scripts in Unicode/10646, but projects that so blatantly ignore the serious scholarly and technological work that is being done to bring communications technology to all the world's written communication can sometimes get my blood boiling.

William
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Re: Localizable Sentences Experiment font support

Post by William » Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:14 am

Thank you for your comments.

I am thinking about what you wrote and hope to reply later.

However, I respond to one matter now.
vanisaac wrote: You seem to be under the mistaken belief that JTC1/SC2/WG2 and the UTC won't touch this because you don't have official status of some sort, but I can and will unequivocally attest to that fact that these committees really don't give a hoot about who you are or where you come from.

The reason for my approach is as a result of advice in an email that I received in August 2011. That advice related to the appropriate committee for the choice of which particular sentences and symbols to be standardized as contrasted from the choice of committee for codepoints to be allocated to symbols and standardized. Thus the committee that standardizes ISO 10646 would receive a standardization proposal from another ISO committee that consisted of sentences and symbols that had already been chosen by that ISO committee.

William Overington

8 December 2011

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Re: Localizable Sentences Experiment font support

Post by William » Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:41 am

vanisaac wrote: Ok. What makes you think that this is preferable to other localization schemes?

To which other systems that do the same task are you referring please?
vanisaac wrote: It requires billions of people around the world to essentially memorize a large set of symbols, most of which are not used in daily life, on the off chance that they are caught in a disaster scenario in a foreign country without any ability to translate from one of the local languages to one of the languages that you understand. How is that preferable to travelers carrying local phrasebooks and learning a few key sentences in a local language?

No, most people do not need to use the symbols at all and some people only need to use them in some cases.

For example, in Scenario 2 of the locse021_three_simulations.pdf document, on page 15 of the document is the following.

quote

A member of staff is trying to use a mobile telephone, yet cannot get a signal.

Margaret Gattenford reaches for her mobile telephone and sets up a text message using
one localizable sentence.

As he finishes trying, Margaret Gattenford calls out.

“Monsieur!”

The member of staff turns toward her and smiles.

Margaret Gattenford gestures that she would like to throw a message from her mobile
telephone to his mobile telephone. He realizes what she wants to do and receives the
message.

He looks up from the screen. It is clear from his gesture that he understands what she is
trying to ask. He guides them to a small dining room. Some time later he returns with a
tray and a meal of pasta and tomatoes.

Margaret Gattenford had thrown one character from her mobile telephone to the mobile
telephone of the member of staff.

Upon receipt by the mobile telephone of the member of staff, the sentence represented
by that character had been displayed localized into the language of the member of staff.
On the cascading menu from which Margaret Gattenford had selected the sentence, the
sentence had been displayed in English. The text that was displayed was as follows.

Where can I buy a meal with no gluten-containing ingredients in it please?

Margaret Gattenford is content, for the pasta pieces on her plate are made in a special
standardized shape that is only used for gluten-free pasta.

end quote

The symbol was not displayed. Neither person needed to know the symbol.

The symbols can, however, be useful in some circumstances.

For example, in Scenario 3 of the locse021_three_simulations.pdf document, on page 19 of the document is the following.

quote

The Information Management Centre is a busy place.

Albert Johnson’s email has arrived, along with many others.

Tanja has displayed the text upon the screen of her computer.

There are twelve lines. On each of eight of them, one black rectangle is displayed. On
each of three other lines there are two words in characters from the Latin alphabet: the
pairs of words look like they could be the names of people.

On the remaining line is an email address.

Tanja has read of how Localizable Sentences encoded as ISO 10646 characters could be
used in the seeking and the providing of information about relatives and friends after a
disaster and wonders if this is the system in action.

Tanja wonders what to do.

Tanja remembers reading about the system and searches on the internet.

end quote

The simulation then continues and Tanja resolves the problem using the symbols.

William Overington

8 December 2011

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Re: Localizable Sentences Experiment font support

Post by William » Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:38 pm

vanisaac wrote: Well, that's part of the problem. I see no research in this project. I've never seen anything about actual cross-linguistic communications in disaster scenarios in all of your work.

Well, I am devising and researching a basic infrastructure idea to assist communication through the language barrier.

There are experts in disaster management and it would be they who choose the sentences that would be encoded in an ISO standard.

Here is an analogy. One hears of singer-somgwriters. Yet what if someone writes excellent song lyrics and although he or she can sing in a social sense amongst friends, no way is he or she a singer who could perform professionally in public. Suppose there is someone who has an excellent singing voice and is a professional singer, yet just does not have the ability to write song lyrics. So the excellent singer sings the excellent song. There is no criticism of the writer of the excellent song lyrics on the grounds that he or she cannot sing professionally.
vanisaac wrote: You describe this as an interdisciplinary project, and I've registered my linguistic concerns about theoretical aspects like color differentiations before, and received little beyond a cursory dismissal.

Well, I found the following, where I thanked you after you made some comments about colours.

viewtopic.php?p=12507#p12507
vanisaac wrote: Also, I see no issues of comm. tech or IT addressed.

Email systems are well known. An ordinary email system would be used for sending most messages. Special software to convert a localizable sentence character to a string of characters using a local database would be needed. I do not know how to implement that software myself.

The other messages would be those thrown locally from a mobile telephone to, usually, another mobile telephone, though sometimes to a static terminal.
vanisaac wrote: The graphic design aspects seem to be the only ones that you care about, but it's completely irrelevant until there is some evidence that an international auxilliary writing is the most efficient solution to actual real-world problems, and not just speculated situations.

Well, this is the gallery section of a fontmaking forum. I was thinking that people reading this forum might be interested in the designs that I had produced. Maybe I was wrong in that thought.
vanisaac wrote:
William wrote: With my research, the enocded unit is a whole sentence, with each encoded sentence being required to be grammatically stand-alone.

And the virtue of that requirement is what, exactly?

Well, that the sentence can be localized directly from a straightforward list in a small database without needing to allow for whether the sentence needs to agree with grammatical gender or verb tense or noun case or adjective case and so on from an earlier sentence.
vanisaac wrote: PPS, I believe strongly in the cause of internationalization and know how much work is still left to be done in encoding minority and historic scripts in Unicode/10646, but projects that so blatantly ignore the serious scholarly and technological work that is being done to bring communications technology to all the world's written communication can sometimes get my blood boiling.

Well, it is not a matter of ignoring the serious scholarly and technological work that is being done to bring communications technology to all the world's written communication. This project is something different that could help communication through the language barrier in some situations. The two are not mutually exclusive.

For example, please consider the Thank you for visiting sign in the Museum of Modern Art in New York, as featured in Google Streetview, that I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread.

viewtopic.php?p=16058#p16058

That sign has localizations into several other languages. I am unsure as to exactly how many. Is it 5 or 6 or 7?

Suppose that someone who speaks Latvian approaches the sign. Localizable sentence technology could allow a localized version of the Thank you for visiting message, in Latvian, to appear on the screen of his or her mobile telephone.

William Overington

8 December 2011

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Re: Localizable Sentences Experiment font support

Post by vanisaac » Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:47 pm

William wrote:
vanisaac wrote: Ok. What makes you think that this is preferable to other localization schemes?

To which other systems that do the same task are you referring please?
Are you honestly saying that you know of no other means of translating from one language to another?
William wrote:
vanisaac wrote: It requires billions of people around the world to essentially memorize a large set of symbols, most of which are not used in daily life, on the off chance that they are caught in a disaster scenario in a foreign country without any ability to translate from one of the local languages to one of the languages that you understand. How is that preferable to travelers carrying local phrasebooks and learning a few key sentences in a local language?

No, most people do not need to use the symbols at all and some people only need to use them in some cases.

For example, in Scenario 2 of the locse021_three_simulations.pdf document, on page 15 of the document is the following.
snip big old scenario.

I see absolutely nothing in that scenario that isn't completely handled by technology that is already present in hundreds of millions of mobile phones currently used by people around the world everyday, and handled extremely well. I've even seen commercials about it.

William wrote:The simulation then continues and Tanja resolves the problem using the symbols.

William Overington

8 December 2011

vanisaac
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Re: Localizable Sentences Experiment font support

Post by vanisaac » Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:08 pm

William wrote:For example, please consider the Thank you for visiting sign in the Museum of Modern Art in New York, as featured in Google Streetview, that I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread.

viewtopic.php?p=16058#p16058

That sign has localizations into several other languages. I am unsure as to exactly how many. Is it 5 or 6 or 7?

Suppose that someone who speaks Latvian approaches the sign. Localizable sentence technology could allow a localized version of the Thank you for visiting message, in Latvian, to appear on the screen of his or her mobile telephone.

William Overington

8 December 2011
This, right here, is the problem. If someone wants to know what the sign says, they type it into google translate. Why isn't that sufficient? Heck, I'm sure there's a site out there right now that will perform OCR and do a machine translation if they take a picture of it. What's more is that if it is a social networking app, the greeting could even end up in the correct grammatical gender with proper formality. Your scheme only does some of these things, doesn't do them particularly well, and requires the wholesale implementation of a new written architecture, and doesn't have the flexibility of allowing people to put together thoughts that they want to express, but forces them to choose between a limited set of thoughts that you want them to express. This fundamental question of why anyone would bother keeps cropping up, and because you haven't done any research into how actual communications technology is used, you can't say why anyone should invest time, energy, or resources into supporting such a thing.

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Re: Localizable Sentences Experiment font support

Post by William » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:19 am

vanisaac wrote:Your scheme ... and doesn't have the flexibility of allowing people to put together thoughts that they want to express, but forces them to choose between a limited set of thoughts that you want them to express.

Well, I agree that only having a limited set of sentences is a problem, though perhaps I may mention that which sentences are in the limited set that would be encoded in an international standard would not be my choice, it would be the choice of an ISO committee.

The set of 142 sentences in the locse021.pdf document consists of 141 chosen by me and 1 chosen by a gentleman who helped with some translations into Swedish.

http://www.unicode.org/mail-arch/unicod ... /0231.html

However, an ISO committee need not necessarily include any of those 142 sentences in a standard.

I sometimes think that an analogy would be between a road system and a railway system. A road system can directly access far more places than can a railway system, yet a railway system has advantages that complement what can be achieved using only a road system.

The problem is addressed on page 13 of the locse021_three_simulations.pdf document.

quote

The Information Management Centre is a busy place.

Albert Johnson’s email has arrived, along with many others.

Sonja has displayed the text upon the screen of her computer. It has been automatically
localized into the local language.

Sonja reads the message and looks in the various documents, some of which are on the
computer and some of which are available in handwritten form. Information is coming
in almost continuously and some other people are doing their best to collate it and enter
it into the local computer system.

She can find no mention of Margaret Gattenford and Anne Johnson.

She drafts a response, starting from a copy of the email that Albert Johnson sent, though
the sentences are displayed in the language that she speaks, though the names are
displayed exactly as Albert Johnson keyed them into his computer. Sonja uses a system
of cascading menus to select sentences. The choice of sentences is finite from a collection
of sentences that have previously been encoded as characters, one character code for each
of the sentences in the set. On her computer the sentences are presented in her own
language, which is not English. So the text below is not what is displayed on Sonja’s
computer: it is what will, if the message is sent, be displayed on Albert Johnson’s computer.

Is there any information about the following person please?
Margaret Gattenford
My answer is as follows.
No.
The following question has been asked.
Also, is there any information about the following person please?
Anne Johnson
My answer is as follows.
No.

Sonja is not entirely happy about this reply. She wishes that there was a sentence that
would say that there is no information available here at the present time and try to
convey the situation that information is coming in almost all the time. So she thinks that
once this disaster situation has been resolved, she will try to suggest some additional
sentences to become encoded in a later edition of the standardization document. It
would also be helpful to be able to send a reference number for each of the two people
about whom the enquiry has been made.

Sonja is about to send the email, when she decides to add one more localizable sentence
from the set she has available together with one line of text.

end quote

It later becomes clear that Sonja has added the localizable sentence Best regards, and her name.

It is inherently part of the invention that the set of sentences would be a limited set and that therefore only the thoughts that are available in the set of encoded sentences could be senr and localized using this invention.

However, the set of 142 sentences in the locse021.pdf document does include the two following sentences so that a plain text message could be forwarded.

Please convey the following message to the person.

The message to the person is now completed.

My thinking in including those sentences was that a message of one or more lines, in plain text in a language understood by both the enquirer and the person about whom information is sought could be included in a message sent to the Information Management Centre: the message could be passed on to the recipient without the poeple at the Information Management Centre necessarily being able to read or understand it.

Thinking about your post, it would be a good idea to include a facility so as to be able to express thoughts in plain text within a message. This would need translation by whatever means outside of this system, yet could be useful so as to be able to send a plain text message within the whole message. The structure of the whole message could be used to convey as much as possible and then the plain text message be presented. The localizable sentences to do that would alos need to state in which language the plain text message is written, so maybe three localizable sentences would be needed.

Here is a link to an earlier post in this thread where the locse021_three_simulations.pdf document can be found.

viewtopic.php?p=16094#p16094

William Overington

14 December 2011

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Re: Localizable Sentences Experiment font support

Post by William » Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:18 am

Here is the Localizable Sentences 026 font.
LOCSE026.TTF
Localizable Sentences 026 font
(77.97 KiB) Downloaded 184 times

This font includes symbols for seven new sentences and phrases that are not in the Localizable Sentences 024 font.

The character codes for the symbols may well display as either black rectangles or black rectangles with codepoint information when displayed in the forum. However, installing the font, then copying from the forum page and pasting into WordPad and then formatting using the font should display the glyphs of the symbols correctly.

U+E2C1 The telephone number of the enquirer is as follows.



U+E2C4 The landline telephone number of the enquirer is as follows.
U+E2C5 The home landline telephone number of the enquirer is as follows.
U+E2C6 The daytime landline telephone number of the enquirer is as follows.
U+E2C7 The mobile telephone number of the enquirer is as follows.



U+E901 Welcome
U+E902 Thank you for visiting



For convenience, the following information is repeated here.

U+E900 Some of the signage items each have a radio frequency identification device in the lower left corner.



The following Alt codes may be useful to people using the font with WordPad.

U+E2C1 Alt 58049 

U+E2C4 Alt 58052 
U+E2C5 Alt 58053 
U+E2C6 Alt 58054 
U+E2C7 Alt 58055 

U+E900 Alt 59648 
U+E901 Alt 59649 
U+E902 Alt 59650 

William Overington

28 December 2011

William
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Re: Localizable Sentences Experiment font support

Post by William » Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:31 pm

On 1 December 2011, I posted a long post in this thread: the post started as follows.
William wrote:Please consider the sign in the following image that Google Street View gathered at the Museum of Modern Art in New York.

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.76156 ... 2,,0,20.46

There is a full screen button to the left of the x in the top right corner of the image. The + sign at the left allows zooming-in.

Viewing thiat image inspired me to produce the folloiwng idea.

Suppose, for example, that an art gallery has two signs, one displaying the phrase "Welcome" and one displaying the phrase "Thank you for visiting".

For the example, please suppose that the signs are in English.

Suppose that the Welcome sign has a passive RFID (radio frequency identification device) tag that supplies the Unicode Private Use Area character U+E901 and that the Thank you for visiting sign has a passive RFID tag that supplies the Unicode Private Use Area character U+E902.

The Localizable Sentences 026 font includes glyphs for U+E901 and U+E902 as well as the glyph for U+E900 that was introduced in the Localizable Sentences 024 font..

U+E900 Some of the signage items each have a radio frequency identification device in the lower left corner.
U+E901 Welcome
U+E902 Thank you for visiting
logo_e900.png
Glyph design for the sentence Some of the signage items each have a radio frequency identification device in the lower left corner.
logo_e900.png (1.53 KiB) Viewed 5760 times
logo_e901.png
Glyph design for the phrase Welcome
logo_e901.png (1.5 KiB) Viewed 5760 times
logo_e902.png
Glyph design for the phrase Thank you for visiting
logo_e902.png (2.95 KiB) Viewed 5760 times

William Overington

28 December 2011

William
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Re: Localizable Sentences Experiment font support

Post by William » Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:28 am

Although the glyphs for the symbols representing the following sentences would not usually be displayed in a message, because they would have been substituted by localized text in the language of the preparer or recipient of that message, I decided that I would like to try to produce glyph designs that would, when displayed, convey, as far as possible, some indication of meaning.

U+E2C1 The telephone number of the enquirer is as follows.

U+E2C4 The landline telephone number of the enquirer is as follows.
U+E2C5 The home landline telephone number of the enquirer is as follows.
U+E2C6 The daytime landline telephone number of the enquirer is as follows.
U+E2C7 The mobile telephone number of the enquirer is as follows.

I began by making a copy of the glyph for the following sentence.

U+E2E1 The name of the enquirer is as follows.
example009.png
Glyph design for the sentence The name of the enquirer is as follows.
example009.png (4.04 KiB) Viewed 5749 times
This was because the possibility existed to produce the following design.
example023.png
Glyph design for the sentence The telephone number of the enquirer is as follows.
example023.png (4.16 KiB) Viewed 5749 times
The following designs were then produced based upon that design.
example024.png
Glyph design for the sentence The landline telephone number of the enquirer is as follows.
example024.png (4.16 KiB) Viewed 5749 times
example025.png
Glyph design for the sentence The home landline telephone number of the enquirer is as follows.
example025.png (4.24 KiB) Viewed 5749 times
example026.png
Glyph design for the sentence The daytime landline telephone number of the enquirer is as follows.
example026.png (4.22 KiB) Viewed 5749 times
example027.png
Glyph design for the sentence The mobile telephone number of the enquirer is as follows.
example027.png (4.25 KiB) Viewed 5749 times
William Overington

29 December 2011

William
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Re: Localizable Sentences Experiment font support

Post by William » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:23 am

Here is the Localizable Sentences 027 font.
LOCSE027.TTF
Localizable Sentences 027 font
(79.1 KiB) Downloaded 176 times
This font includes symbols for six phrases for art gallery signs that are not in the Localizable Sentences 026 font.

The character codes for the symbols may well display as either black rectangles or black rectangles with codepoint information when displayed in the forum. However, installing the font, then copying from the forum page and pasting into WordPad and then formatting using the font should display the glyphs of the symbols correctly.

U+E903 Stairs
U+E904 Café
U+E905 Restaurant
U+E906 Bookshop
U+E907 Information Desk
U+E908 Sculpture Gallery

The following Alt codes may be useful to people using the font with WordPad.

U+E903 Alt 59651 
U+E904 Alt 59652 
U+E905 Alt 59653 
U+E906 Alt 59654 
U+E907 Alt 59655 
U+E908 Alt 59656 

William Overington

6 January 2012

William
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Re: Localizable Sentences Experiment font support

Post by William » Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:51 pm

As some readers may know, one of the programs that I like to use is Serif ImpactPlus 5.0, which is a rather nice, budget-price range, virtual 3D program.

A feature of the program is that virtual 3D objects can be constructed in the 3D Workshop facility. One of the available facilities within the 3D Workshop is the construction of a virtual 3D object from the glyph of a character from a font.

I decided to try to produce a virtual 3D object as if a bronze sculpture were made based upon the design of the Thank you for visiting glyph.

A feature of the program, however, is that there is an 8-bit selection limitation on which glyphs can be imported into the ImpactPlus 5.0 program from a font.

So, wishing to produce the model, I made a special purpose font that includes the nine art gallery sign glyphs from the Localizable Sentences 027 font in the positions of the digits 0 through to 8 of the special purpose font. Once the glyphs are accessed in the 3D Workshop, the identity of the character in the font is not apparent to the user of the program nor in the display.

An interesting aspect of making the font is that I included a lowercase alphabet in the font. This is becuase ImpactPlus 5.0 lists fonts in the font selection list of the 3D Workshop using glyphs from the font.

Here is the font.
LOC3D027.TTF
art gallery signs glyphs font
(5.97 KiB) Downloaded 179 times
Here is an image exported from the ImpactPlus 5.0 program.
thank_you_for_visiting.png
thank_you_for_visiting.png (10.32 KiB) Viewed 5689 times
In the ImpactPlus 5.0 program, I made the object 230 units wide, 70 units high and 10 units deep. The width and height were to preserve the aspect ratio of the glyph design. The depth was so that there was a square section to the struts.

Readers with access to any 3D modelling software that can import from a font are invited to try to make 3D models from the glyphs of the font, and, if they wish, to post details of their experiences and maybe outputted images in this thread.

William Overington

6 January 2012

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