No browsing anymore? I'm downgrading!

[PepperAlf]

No browsing? I'm downgrading!

If I'm not mistaken, I can't browse folders anymore with version 4. Instead, every font I want to see from my collection (e.g. from a CD or an external drive) will be permanently COPIED to my hard drive.
I find this a huge problem.

I already bought the upgrade without realizing that this integral funcionality of browsing huge font collections was gone. Couldn't believe it actually. I won't ask for a refund because I think MainType is worth double its price.

But I want to let you know that I have to downgrade to version 3!

Alf

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

I tested by inserting the Corel Draw 4.0 CD in the drive, and browsed it by Adding the folder and creating a group automatically. I then renamed the group created from TTF to CorelDraw 4.0.

After removing the CD I could still browse and install the fonts, so I guess that you're right about it copying fonts to the hard disk. Surely that's better than having to find the CD and stick it in the drive again to find the fonts that you want? Just how many Gbytes of fonts do you need to browse?

However, I presume that you can simply delete the font group and its fonts from MainType if you don't want to keep them for installing later.

I haven't got up to speed with MainType4 yet, but I like it so far.

[Pat77]

I am going to downgrade to version 3.0 as well, for the same reason, plus another one: you can no longer find your font files on the hard disk once you have installed your fonts in MainType. There is no indication of where the font files reside any longer. The field with that information has been removed from the main window and the information is not available anywhere else. This is too bad. ManiType 3.0 was so good!

If have to store font sets in multiple folders like I do, you end up with a sort of problem, one way or another. Each project I handle has its own set of fonts in its own folder, and the way MainType 4.0 forces me to add all fonts to the library before I can load them is a problem. I handle too many different projects to store every font of every project in the library. At that rate, in a year, there will be so many fonts and so many font groups in my library that it is going to be very difficult to manage, unless I delete the fonts as I go along, but then I loose the possibility of browsing for a font I have used in the past, which defeats the prupose of a good font manager.

Really too bad. My advice: if you handle many different font sets for multiple projects like I do, stay with version 3.0, which is much more flexible.

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

I think a lot of users will reach similar hasty conclusions before giving MainType 4 a fair trial.

We saw very similar complaints when the M2 mail client was added to Opera. Being database driven, M2 did not need users to organise their email into folders. Instead, like a database, predefined views or user-created filters were used to organise mail. Every mail received for all accounts gets dumped in the received mail folder, and if you want to view mail from last month, or sent to one account, you use a different view or filter to exclude all others.

It is much more efficient and faster, but users familiar with Outlook Express were confused. I suppose that many gave up without even trying to understand.

I am also new to using MainType 4, and there are a few things I am unsure about at the moment. No doubt I will figure it out after using it for a while. What I am sure about is that it starts in less than half the time that MT3 does. I have only 511 fonts installed, and less than 5,000 in my library. For users with large collections of fonts, I suppose that the speed difference will be far more significant.

• MainType 3: Load and Display 511 active fonts takes about 45 seconds. To display about 4,900 fonts including duplicates in my fonts folders and all subfolders takes about another 3 minutes
• MainType 4: Load and display all active fonts and all the fonts in my library takes about 16 seconds.

[Roger Br]

Unfortunately I too have to agree on this. Looks like I am going back to ver 3 too.
I have tried to get it working in ver 4 but it seems not possible.
To browse folders without adding them to the database is essential for me at least the way you have to delete fonts now.
When I want to browse a folder to see which fonts to keep and not when finding new ones everything gets added to the database.
I find 2 things I like better in ver 4 but the drawbacks are unsourmontable in my workflow.
Just having a browse mode/window would solve everything for me.

[bobcdy]

I didn't realise that Maintype 4 takes control of all my fonts; I'm reverting back to MT 3 and have deleted MT4 from my system. I had hoped it would have been designed like many successful photo managers, such as 'ACDSee Photo Manager' - that program inventories all my photographs and keeps track of them rather than trying to take over all control from me.

[Erwin Denissen]

If I'm not mistaken, I can't browse folders anymore with version 4. Instead, every font I want to see from my collection (e.g. from a CD or an external drive) will be permanently COPIED to my hard drive.
I find this a huge problem.

Can you please enlighten why this is a problem?

MainType 3 is an excellent font file manager, but we want to move forward and that's why we came up with a true font manager.

MainType 4 has made several huge steps forward, and with that some things have changed pretty drastically. We realize this is something that requires a change in the way you maintain your fonts. Believe me, it took us sevveral motnhs, before we made the final decision, but all the other options had too many disadvantages.

Maybe if you tells us your workflow, we can explain what can be done with MT4, and maybe you'll be come a MT4 addict pretty soon.

I am going to downgrade to version 3.0 as well, for the same reason, plus another one: you can no longer find your font files on the hard disk once you have installed your fonts in MainType.

That is why you need a font manager. A good font manager takes care of all that hassle, and frees your mind to focus on your projects instead of remembering where you installed a font.

If have to store font sets in multiple folders like I do, you end up with a sort of problem, one way or another. Each project I handle has its own set of fonts in its own folder, and the way MainType 4.0 forces me to add all fonts to the library before I can load them is a problem. I handle too many different projects to store every font of every project in the library. At that rate, in a year, there will be so many fonts and so many font groups in my library that it is going to be very difficult to manage, unless I delete the fonts as I go along, but then I loose the possibility of browsing for a font I have used in the past, which defeats the prupose of a good font manager.

All the issues you mention, are the exact reason why we came up with this new approach for MainType 4. We have over 150,000 fonts on our test machine, and it's a true pleasure to have them at all times. With MainType 3 you have to wait for several minutes, or even hours before you can work through them.

To browse folders without adding them to the database is essential for me at least the way you have to delete fonts now.
When I want to browse a folder to see which fonts to keep and not when finding new ones everything gets added to the database.

IMHO this is a tedious process with MainType 3, while MT4 provides several means to overcome this time-consuming process. I can come up with several ways, but I'm sure we can and will add more powerful features to MT4.1 that you'll love.

Just having a browse mode/window would solve everything for me.

So basically you want a file explorer for fonts. Then you will continue to struggle with the way you have to manage fonts on your files system. Why don't you let MainType 4 do the job for you?

I didn't realise that Maintype 4 takes control of all my fonts;

Well what can we say. Finally MainType has become mature, and can be called a true font manager.

I had hoped it would have been designed like many successful photo managers, such as 'ACDSee Photo Manager' - that program inventories all my photographs and keeps track of them rather than trying to take over all control from me.

We thought the risk of accidentally deleting a font and the complex way of making backups was not worth it to go that route. If photographs were not taken that much storage, I bet they would have added a Vault like we did. Now you never have to worry about where your fonts are. Also if you accidentally remove a font, you can still export it from MainType to your file system.

Again at the time we decided to go for a database driven approach, we did realize several people would be not amused by this change, but we are convinced this is a significant improvement, and allows us to make many more powerfull features. It might require you to make some drastic changes in your daily workflow to get the most out of your fonts, but I'm convinced if you give it a honest chance, you will start to like it, and learn to love it later

[PepperAlf]

Hello Erwin,

it's obvious you guys put a lot of thinking and effort into MainType 4. The first thing making a striking impression was the speed. Sure, this is excellent.

I'm aware that I'm possibly oldschool, but the notion that every single font I just want to "look" at will be sucked into my system - and staying there - provokes my reluctance. I just don't want that. I mean, how many fonts will be in my system after 2 or 3 years?
For me, browsing font collections means selecting, and I find this an essential part of a font manager. I want to pick only what I like, instead of having to delete whole bunches of stuff I don't like.
I'm pretty sure that there will be more people downgrading because of this or who at least do miss this feature a lot.

So the more practical question in the end is: would it be possible to include a font browser into MainType 4? For people like me?

[Erwin Denissen]

• - You could start rating fonts you like. That way you can choose to browse through all your fonts, or just view the fonts you really like.
  - You could also add fonts you want to keep to groups, and let the others just sit in the library.
  - Or you could remove fonts you don't like.

More ways to better manage your fonts are on the way (tagging for example), and I'm sure there are users already using a totally different approach. If so, please share your workflow here!

So the more practical question in the end is: would it be possible to include a font browser into MainType 4? For people like me?

No, MainType 4 can only display fonts that are available through its font library.

[bobcdy]

I appreciate what MainType does, and I think I understand the philosophy behind version 4, but to me it's a shame that High-Logic has not taken care to design MT4 to allow for different user preferences. Apple has this "we know better than you" philosophy for all its products. I remember using the old Apple II, and really liking the flexibility that resulted from many different companies producing plugin cards and other accessories for it. With the successors of Apple II, though, it became apparent that the new Apple was not nearly as flexible as the Apple II because Apple had now decided that only its own products were good enough for their computers. That is, Apple knew better than users what they should buy and use. At that point I, like hordes of early computer users, bailed out of Apple computers and went with IBM clones that maintained the old Apple's approach . Although Apple has made a striking comeback with Iphones and the Ipad, in computers it still is a tiny niche player appealing mostly to non-tech types and probably will never regain its early dominance because of its pervasive attitude toward users. At my university just about every faculty member uses a computer, but as far as I know, the only Mac users are those involved in graphic arts or similar areas of endeavor.

I'd really like to see MT 5 and future versions have this flexibility - perhaps the default mode could be the MT4 design, but sub-directory organization could be turned on by those with that preference.

[Erwin Denissen]

I understand your point of view, but it would have taken us one more year to make MainType 4 a hybrid between file-based and database driven. And then it would mostly confuse people, as it would no longer be intuitive to manage fonts.

This was not an option, so we basically had to choose between not updating MainType, and wait and see how the competition would move forward, or to go for it and rebuild MainType and be ready for the future. It was a tough decision as we have limited resources and we have to maintain other software as well. The easy way was to no longer update the font manager, but we just don't want to abandon MainType.

I'm open for all kinds of suggestions that make life easier for you guys, but I'm just being honest and let you know that powerful enhancements we can implement in a short time are most likely the ones we will add to the next releases.

If font browsing is required in your workflow, and you don't want to or just can't change the workflow, then I suggest to use MainType 3 to browse fonts, and use MainType 4 to manage your fonts.