Why does MainType need to "ignore" deleted fonts?

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cerulean
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Why does MainType need to "ignore" deleted fonts?

Post by cerulean » Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:37 pm

I've long been puzzled by the terminology used when fonts are removed from MainType. As I understand it, when fonts are added to MainType some font metadata is added to the MainType database and the fonts themselves are copied into the MainType "vault". When a user deletes a font in the MainType interface they get the option of:
1. Deleting the font file on disc but keeping the font in MainType (I can't think of why a user would want to do this or expect this to be the behaviour of a delete function, but anyway...)
2. Removing the font from MainType
3. Removing the font from MainType and deleting the font file on disc

These last two options say that MainType will "ignore" the font - the word "ignore" suggests that rather than actually removing the font from MainType the font remains in the MainType database/vault and is just not displayed in the MainType interface. As a test I deleted some fonts with Option 3 and checked the vault files before and after: no change to the size of the vault files. So it looks like the vault just gets bigger and bigger and more bloated and there's no way to properly delete fonts from it.

Some questions...
1. Are fonts removed from the vault and database when they are deleted using any of the delete options?
2. If not, why not? Why "ignore" removed fonts rather than delete them? If the user wants a font deleted then they want it deleted, simple as that. "Ignoring" it just makes the removal process more confusing, bloats the database/vault, and makes it more difficult to add removed fonts back at a later date. Can anyone explain the thinking behind the way MainType handles the removal of fonts?

Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Why does MainType need to "ignore" deleted fonts?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:11 am

cerulean wrote:Why "ignore" removed fonts rather than delete them? If the user wants a font deleted then they want it deleted, simple as that.
I don't think it is as simple as you say. Windows has a Recycle bin because users often delete files in error, or later change their mind and want to recover them. Ignored fonts are effectively in the "Recycle Bin."

I think Erwin is very busy now (isn't he always), what with the new forum, etc., but if reading the help file for the umpteenth time doesn't help, perhaps he can clarify the reasons later.
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Erwin Denissen
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Re: Why does MainType need to "ignore" deleted fonts?

Post by Erwin Denissen » Fri Nov 28, 2014 1:05 pm

Allow me to provide a little history first:

At some point we came to the conclusion that a file based font manager could never work. People with only a couple of hundred fonts hardly need a font manager, and people with thousands of them don't want to wait several minutes each time a button is clicked. Well, there are several other reasons, but this all started in 2010, so I don't remember all reasoning. Anyway we decided to move to a database driven font manager. We've spent months trying to figure out a way to keep a database fully in sync with the file system, but there were too many drawbacks, and speed was one of them. We aimed to have a release within a year, but it took us almost two years, and even then numerous features didn't make it.
cerulean wrote:1. Deleting the font file on disc but keeping the font in MainType (I can't think of why a user would want to do this or expect this to be the behaviour of a delete function, but anyway...)
For numerous people this is the most convenient way to use MainType. No need to worry were a font file is located and no duplicates spread around your file system.
cerulean wrote:1. Are fonts removed from the vault and database when they are deleted using any of the delete options?
No, they will remain in the database and vault.
cerulean wrote:2. If not, why not? Why "ignore" removed fonts rather than delete them? If the user wants a font deleted then they want it deleted, simple as that. "Ignoring" it just makes the removal process more confusing, bloats the database/vault, and makes it more difficult to add removed fonts back at a later date. Can anyone explain the thinking behind the way MainType handles the removal of fonts?
If you delete a font, but keep a copy on your file system, then after reindexing the font file, it would come back into MainType. Ignoring a font will prevent this from happening. If you accidentally ignored a font, then MainType allows you to unignore it.

We are aware we could further improve MainType., so we are pleased with your feedback. I hope other customers also post to the forum, as it helps us make our font manager even better!
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JohaWeber
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Re: Why does MainType need to "ignore" deleted fonts?

Post by JohaWeber » Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:39 pm

I feel exactly like cerulean. This default behaviour of ignoring fonts drives me crazy. I really like Maintype but this behaviour makes me install and reinstall the whole program (to reset this ominous ignore-database) when I need to update fonts which have a slightly different name and unnecessarly bloats up the Library View.
Every ****ing version I beg that this issue gets fixed or AT LEAST an option is provided to deactivate the "delete and ignore" behaviour to just a "delete" behaviour and have a REAL delete function of files in the file-system as well as in MainType itself...
Erwin Denissen wrote:At some point we came to the conclusion that a file based font manager could never work. People with only a couple of hundred fonts hardly need a font manager, and people with thousands of them don't want to wait several minutes each time a button is clicked.
Well, how about asking the people that are about to use your product? For a better understanding: I try to manage about 5000 fonts with MainType and I don't get what "waiting serveral minutes each time a button is clicked" has to do with this behaviour or why it even would work this way? What button? I don't get it...

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