Fonts don't delete

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corteq
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Fonts don't delete

Post by corteq » Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:54 pm

I am using MainType to delete fonts and selecting the third option to supposedly remove the font from MainType, delete from the hard disk and add the font name to the ignore list. However, the font is not deleted from the hard drive and must be manually removed. I then tried unignoring fonts to see what happens and they all appear back in the main view. This indicates that all that is really happening when I delete is the font is hidden from view. How are you supposed to cleanout the database from unwanted fonts?
Graham Young - MT7 Pro / Win 10 Pro

Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Fonts don't delete

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:39 pm

If you get an error message when permanently removing fonts, the fonts may be in use or otherwise protect. If this happens, restart your PC and try again.

I need to do this frequently as I develop my own fonts, and don't wish to keep a load of old versions. I disable Sync for my font folders.
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corteq
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Re: Fonts don't delete

Post by corteq » Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:36 pm

Thank you for the suggestion but no there is no error message. The system is Windows 10 Pro and the drive locations have full read / write access. Rebooting has no effect.
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Re: Fonts don't delete

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:51 pm

I use this option, which removes everything.
Remove Fonts.png
Remove Fonts.png (12.7 KiB) Viewed 748 times
However, when it fails, I get an error message like this:
Access Denied.png
Access Denied.png (2.65 KiB) Viewed 748 times
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corteq
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Re: Fonts don't delete

Post by corteq » Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:22 pm

Yes as I stated in my original post this is the option I am using. I am getting no error messages. The fonts aren't locked by Windows as I can delete them manually without problems. I have just tried the same thing from my laptop with the same result.
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Erwin Denissen
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Re: Fonts don't delete

Post by Erwin Denissen » Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:40 pm

Please download and install this release and let us know your results.
http://www.high-logic.com/tmp/MainTypeS ... 0.1026.exe
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corteq
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Re: Fonts don't delete

Post by corteq » Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:34 am

Erwin Denissen wrote:Please download and install this release and let us know your results.
http://www.high-logic.com/tmp/MainTypeS ... 0.1026.exe
Thank you but unfortunately no difference. The fonts are stored on a network folder with full access rights and the MainType database is in the default local location. Everything seems to be correct as far as the environment goes. Any further ideas?
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Re: Fonts don't delete

Post by Erwin Denissen » Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:22 pm

The update should solve the problem:
http://www.high-logic.com/tmp/MainTypeS ... 0.1029.exe

Let us know if it works.
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corteq
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Re: Fonts don't delete

Post by corteq » Wed Nov 09, 2016 4:22 pm

Erwin Denissen wrote:The update should solve the problem:
http://www.high-logic.com/tmp/MainTypeS ... 0.1029.exe

Let us know if it works.
Well that has partially worked. It does delete the file but still leaves the font in the MainType store. Can you have another look at this please? Purging old and unwanted fonts is important.
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Re: Fonts don't delete

Post by Erwin Denissen » Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:28 am

corteq wrote:Well that has partially worked. It does delete the file but still leaves the font in the MainType store. Can you have another look at this please? Purging old and unwanted fonts is important.
It should also be removed from your Views. It should only remain available through the Ignored Fonts dialog.

Within MainType fonts can only be ignored. This ensures MainType keeps ignoring such font, as long as you don't unignore it. It is by design, to guarantee a font remains ignored.
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corteq
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Re: Fonts don't delete

Post by corteq » Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:08 am

Erwin Denissen wrote:
corteq wrote:Well that has partially worked. It does delete the file but still leaves the font in the MainType store. Can you have another look at this please? Purging old and unwanted fonts is important.
It should also be removed from your Views. It should only remain available through the Ignored Fonts dialog.

Within MainType fonts can only be ignored. This ensures MainType keeps ignoring such font, as long as you don't unignore it. It is by design, to guarantee a font remains ignored.
Rubbish! That is not what your documentation says, that is not what the delete menu says and that is not what any person who works with a database would ever expect to find.

I quote your manual on page 38 "The font(s) are DELETED from the hard disk AND the library and will be ignored if it is ever found again."

I quote from your Delete Menu option 2 "REMOVE fonts from MainType. MainType will also keep ignoring the font(s)"

I quote from your Delete Menu option 3 "REMOVE fonts from MainType AND delete from all known file system locations. The font(s) are DELETED, and MainType will ignore the fonts."

It does not say "HIDE fonts from MainType" does it? It says "REMOVE". The purpose of the Ignore list is clearly so that the font is not added back into the library (and database) accidentally, which is sensible. You are suggesting that once a font has been added to the database it stays there for life. You could end up with a database containing thousands of fonts unwanted and the only way they remain hidden is by another list with thousands of ignore items in it. I have been an IT Consultant and Systems Integrator for more than 25 years and have designed many databases. I have never heard of a database sold for commercial use that could not be maintained. Given that your own documentation clearly states that it can delete fonts from MainType then it must do so.

The fact that this product is not working as advertised is a major problem. Either it is fixed or I should be refunded so that I can purchase a product elsewhere that does what it claims to do.
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Re: Fonts don't delete

Post by Erwin Denissen » Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:06 am

We did implement the feature because numerous users did request it.

It now works more-or-less like deleting files from Windows, as those can also be recovered from the Recycle Bin. The only thing missing right now is a way to permanently delete fonts.

I'm not sure how we could implement it without breaking the current remove and unignore functionality.
corteq wrote:The fact that this product is not working as advertised is a major problem. Either it is fixed or I should be refunded so that I can purchase a product elsewhere that does what it claims to do.
I've just refunded your order.

In case you didn't know it; In Windows there are numerous ways to get back deleted files even after you've removed them permanently from the recycle bin, so did you ask a refund from Microsoft as well?
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corteq
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Re: Fonts don't delete

Post by corteq » Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:37 am

Erwin Denissen wrote:We did implement the feature because numerous users did request it.

It now works more-or-less like deleting files from Windows, as those can also be recovered from the Recycle Bin. The only thing missing right now is a way to permanently delete fonts.

I'm not sure how we could implement it without breaking the current remove and unignore functionality.
corteq wrote:The fact that this product is not working as advertised is a major problem. Either it is fixed or I should be refunded so that I can purchase a product elsewhere that does what it claims to do.
I've just refunded your order.

In case you didn't know it; In Windows there are numerous ways to get back deleted files even after you've removed them permanently from the recycle bin, so did you ask a refund from Microsoft as well?
Your Windows analogy is a poor one. When a file is permanently deleted the space it uses is freed up and data can overwrite that location. Well done Microsoft, that's exactly what I expected your product to do. I have been going through earlier posts on this subject and have found people complaining about this issue. I strongly recommend that you re-word your documentation because the way it reads at the moment is completely different to what you state here. I look forward to my refund and will move to one of your competitors.
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Re: Fonts don't delete

Post by Erwin Denissen » Thu Nov 10, 2016 12:02 pm

corteq wrote:Your Windows analogy is a poor one. When a file is permanently deleted the space it uses is freed up and data can overwrite that location. Well done Microsoft, that's exactly what I expected your product to do. I have been going through earlier posts on this subject and have found people complaining about this issue. I strongly recommend that you re-word your documentation because the way it reads at the moment is completely different to what you state here. I look forward to my refund and will move to one of your competitors.
We always try to improve our software, and we are glad you did provide valuable feedback. If more people would like us to make the requested changes, please let us know.

There are only a few good font managers, and all come with good and bad things. We get a lot of customers who are fed up with their previous font manager, but we're sorry to see you go.
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Re: Fonts don't delete

Post by nabsltd » Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:47 pm

Erwin Denissen wrote:It now works more-or-less like deleting files from Windows, as those can also be recovered from the Recycle Bin. The only thing missing right now is a way to permanently delete fonts.

I'm not sure how we could implement it without breaking the current remove and unignore functionality.
Adding a feature to take an item in the "Ignore" list and remove all references to that font resource from the database (including the ignore list) would solve most of the complaints about these issues.

Basically, the problem is that after a few iterations of copying a font file into a folder to be discovered, editing the original project, deleting the current font file and ignoring the resource, copying, etc., you get 20-30 copies of what appears to be the same font on the ignore list. None of those font resources are anything we care about, and they never will be again, so we need a way to permanently delete them, instead of having the MainType font database grow forever. The current way is a good system for "oops, I deleted that font from my disk...lucky MainType has a backup", but at some point people want to really delete some things.

Another good example would be if you updated Adobe Font Folio to the latest version...almost every font in it has some slight changes, so deleting the old files from their place on disk (and ignoring in MainType) and then copying the new files in place, I now have 180MB of font resources in the MainType database that I absolutely never, ever want to see again, as I going to use the new versions.

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