Eye Sort

Post general font related questions (e.g. how to install, convert and use fonts) and requests (looking for fonts, designers etc.) here.
Post Reply
Dave Crosby
Typographer
Typographer
Posts: 784
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 1:13 pm
Location: Enoch, Utah

Eye Sort

Post by Dave Crosby » Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:49 pm

Between snow shoveling bouts this morning (getting ready for the 50 degree temperature drop across the nation predicted for tomorrow, the first day of February 2011) I decided to fiddle around with an old project, a new simpler version of PANOSE.

I named it "EyeSort." To get it out of Panose territory but use the Panose locations in the fonts I've started this with:
A. Text, B. Hand, C. Decorated, D. Symbol.
For me, the "Panose 0 = Any" and "1 = No assigned font is similar" seem redundant, so here 0 = Not sorted or assigned.

A. Text: I re-ordered Text fonts from simplest to most complex.
EyeSort-A01.jpg
EyeSort-A01.jpg (163.01 KiB) Viewed 4683 times
B. Hand: Freeing up the number 1 allowed me to add Pencil to the tool list.
EyeSort-B01.jpg
EyeSort-B01.jpg (81.52 KiB) Viewed 4683 times
C. Decorated (would Fancy be better? Perhaps Derivative?) There are problems here. In my mind, they are ALL derivatives.
I would like to see the succeeding numbers being the number of the font style it is derived from.
EyeSort-C01.jpg
EyeSort-C01.jpg (133.93 KiB) Viewed 4683 times
Any comments?
Last edited by Dave Crosby on Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Aut nunc aut nunquam

William
Top Typographer
Top Typographer
Posts: 1997
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 6:41 pm
Location: Worcestershire, England
Contact:

Re: Eye Sort

Post by William » Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:52 am

Dave Crosby wrote: Any comments?

A good idea. This looks very useful.

May I suggest the following additions for consideration please.

As well as A. Text, B. Hand, C. Decorated, D. Symbol. there could also be Z. Other.

Then 99 for "other" for each of them.

This would mean that any font that was found not able to be classified otherwise either fully or partially could be included in a list of fonts and their EyeSort classification as using Z or 99 or both.

Also, for Initials, could there be a way of expressing the case where there is a set of fonts that can be used together to produce colour effects, including a way of indicating which of them could be used on their own or with others from the set and which of them could only be realistically used with one or more of the others from the set please.

William Overington

1 February 2011

Dave Crosby
Typographer
Typographer
Posts: 784
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 1:13 pm
Location: Enoch, Utah

Re: Eye Sort

Post by Dave Crosby » Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:01 pm

Hi William,

The Z is a good suggestion. E could also be used, but perhaps E, F,G ... should be reserved for Seasonal, National, Sports or whatever strikes the fancy of a collector. We could each make up our own scheme. After all,
In their Introduction, Monotype states:
Hewlett-Packard does not restrict the use of PANOSE Classification Numbers in typeface products developed by third parties.
Somewhere in this I want to keep the Panose third digit:
Image
Aut nunc aut nunquam

William
Top Typographer
Top Typographer
Posts: 1997
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 6:41 pm
Location: Worcestershire, England
Contact:

Re: Eye Sort

Post by William » Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:09 pm

Dave Crosby wrote:Hi William,

The Z is a good suggestion. E could also be used, but perhaps E, F,G ... should be reserved for Seasonal, National, Sports or whatever strikes the fancy of a collector. We could each make up our own scheme.

Hi Dave

Thank you. The idea for Z rather than E was so that you, as originator of EyeSort, could have space to extend the EyeSort system by using E and so on if you wished. Likewise with the 99 feature.

From my perspective I would far sooner have one EyeSort system, with rules decided by you, than have the facility to make up my own scheme. One EyeSort system means that the information is interchangeable with other people. I am thinking of trying to classify each of my own fonts that I have produced using the EyeSort system. If I find one that I cannot decide how to classify it, I can ask in this thread. That could result in either someone explaining to me how the font should be classified using the EyeSort system, or maybe in the EyeSort system being extended.
Dave Crosby wrote:
After all,
In their Introduction, Monotype states:
Hewlett-Packard does not restrict the use of PANOSE Classification Numbers in typeface products developed by third parties.

Somewhere in this I want to keep the Panose third digit:
Image

Do you think that using lowercase letters for what Panose has as the third digit would help?

So for Panose third digit of 2 through to 11, one would use b through to k.

Not understanding Panose very well, I am wondering quite what Any and No Fit mean for digit 3 and how they differ. I suppose that a lowercase a could be used for the digit 1 if a digit 1 is needed. If a lowercase letter is need for the digit 0, then maybe a lowercase p could be used.

The reason that a lowercase p is suggested is because I once, long ago, devised a way of expressing hexadecimal characters as 16 letters and I used a for 1, b for 2 and so on, which gave o for 15, so I used p for 0 so that it could all be produced on a keyboard and handled as ordinary text and the last four bits of the character code gave the hexadecimal value.

I suppose that a lowercase z would only be useful in this context if a typeface weight could be "other", though, at the moment, I cannot think how it could be, because typeface weight is quantitative whereas typeface family and typeface tool are qualitative so there could, in principle, be an "other" for them.

Using lowercase letters would mean that a typeface would have an EyeSort classification of capital letter, followed by number, followed by lowercase letter. For example, a particular font could have the following EyeSort classification, B8e and another particular font could have the EyeSort classification A13e.

I like the EyeSort system. It is straightforward to use and the visual guide helps to make a decision on how to classify a font.

William Overington

1 February 2011

William
Top Typographer
Top Typographer
Posts: 1997
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 6:41 pm
Location: Worcestershire, England
Contact:

Re: Eye Sort

Post by William » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:11 am

I have been trying to classify two of my fonts using EyeSort.

The fonts are those used in the pdf attached in the following post.

viewtopic.php?p=13799#p13799

The heading is in Sonnet Calligraphic 029. How is that to be classified? Does it need something like B10 defined as "draughted using computer precision" or does the font classify under C4 or does the font classify under A?

The main text is in Gallery Plus. It is B8 as a handwritten font and something like A10 for its effect. What should be used? Or should there be another classification of a capital letter for "a handwritten font in the style of a text font" with numbers for sans serif to various types of serif?

William Overington

2 February 2011

Dave Crosby
Typographer
Typographer
Posts: 784
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 1:13 pm
Location: Enoch, Utah

Re: Eye Sort

Post by Dave Crosby » Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:24 pm

I don't want this to get complicated. That is a big Panose problem, too many "buckets" and too complicated making measurements.

I'm thinking
A. Text - Designed for legibility, What kind of serif.
B. Hand lettered, What kind of tool, flowing and non-flowing Script.
C. Derived; C1. Text, C2. Hand or Script, C3. Seasonal; with C31 Spring (Easter etc); C32 Summer; C33 Fall; C34 Winter.
If all the Winter fonts are in one pile you can fairly easily find the ONE needed at that moment.

Names or foundry's, forget it.

"First things first, but not necessarily in that order."
Aut nunc aut nunquam

Post Reply