Some issues regarding my font

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Ahzoh
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:19 pm

Some issues regarding my font

Post by Ahzoh »

I am intending to make a cursive, vertical, LTR conscript font. I should note that all of my glyphs are set to the Private Use area (E000 and beyond).

I've made sure that contextual alternates work for the cursive part, although I've noticed that, while it works on FontCreator's WOFF tester and my laptop on the website I've uploaded the font to, it doesn't want to work when using the program's font tester or on Microsoft Word (even when I have contextual alternates turned on in the settings). Additionally the website doesn't display the font correctly when I'm on my Iphone.

With regards to the phone thing, when I substitutions under normal contextual alternates, it is very selective in what letters will have their cursive forms, like not turning the leftmost letter from it's isolate form to final form:
Image

But when it have I under required contextual alternates, it doesn't want to work at all on my phone:
Image

Another thing that's problematic is line spacing. It is a vertical writing system, which I know has poor support, so I've been using HTML code to rotate the script. I've been noticing that when I put the letters within table cells they tend to cut into the cell beside them. I'm not sure if it's a problem with HTML/the website or the way I've set up the Typo Ascender/Descender and WinAscent/Descent metrics.
Image

Lastly, and it's not really an issue but I was looking up this list of opentype features and I noticed there was a feature called "vertical alternates", and I'm wondering how/if I could get that to work and how the feature might be triggered.

Thank you in advance.
Erwin Denissen
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Re: Some issues regarding my font

Post by Erwin Denissen »

Ahzoh wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:18 pm I am intending to make a cursive, vertical, LTR conscript font. I should note that all of my glyphs are set to the Private Use area (E000 and beyond).
Shaping engines rely on Unicode data. It allows text segmentation and it provides other data which is used to determine what OpenType layout features should be applied. For example Arabic requires init, medi, fina, and isol, but also curs, etc.

I do not know how shaping engines cope with PUA characters. Are you inventing a new script or language?
Ahzoh wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:18 pm Another thing that's problematic is line spacing. It is a vertical writing system, which I know has poor support, so I've been using HTML code to rotate the script. I've been noticing that when I put the letters within table cells they tend to cut into the cell beside them. I'm not sure if it's a problem with HTML/the website or the way I've set up the Typo Ascender/Descender and WinAscent/Descent metrics.
In the Metrics page, available in the Font Properties dialog make sure you have set the Include vertical spacing option.

Also make sure in the Metrics Options dialog the top and bottom side-bearings options are checked.

Then inside the Glyph Edit window provide correct top and bottom side-bearings for your glyphs.
Ahzoh wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:18 pm Lastly, and it's not really an issue but I was looking up this list of opentype features and I noticed there was a feature called "vertical alternates", and I'm wondering how/if I could get that to work and how the feature might be triggered.
I have not much experience with text in vertical layout, but I believe Microsoft and Apple make use of the Vertical Alternates and Rotation (vrt2) feature, while web browsers rely on Vertical Alternates (vert).
Erwin Denissen
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Ahzoh
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:19 pm

Re: Some issues regarding my font

Post by Ahzoh »

Erwin Denissen wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:47 pm I do not know how shaping engines cope with PUA characters. Are you inventing a new script or language?
Ideally I hope to achieve a font that can be written RTL horizontally as well as LTR vertically. I can at least achieve some semblance of being RTL by using a string reversing command for my text.

I am doing both, a script for a constructed language, which is why I opted to assign the glyphs to PUA. Is the glyphs being assigned to PUA why the contextual alternates don't work on Word or my Iphone?
In the Metrics page, available in the Font Properties dialog make sure you have set the Include vertical spacing option. Then inside the Glyph Edit window provide correct top and bottom side-bearings for your glyphs.
Oh, it looks like I had already had that feature checked, although I can't seem to find this "Glyph Edit" window. But I made sure to have these settings:
Image
I have not much experience with text in vertical layout, but I believe Microsoft and Apple make use of the Vertical Alternates and Rotation (vrt2) feature, while web browsers rely on Vertical Alternates (vert).
And for added difficulty, the HTML command writing-mode: vertical-rl and vertical-lr seems to only rotate text 90 degrees clockwise, which is fine for Mongolian where its letters are "upside-down" by default, but my letters are "right-side up" so when I use that command it doesn't really work. It seems like PUA characters do not rotate as fully as Latin characters would when using the same HTML commands. I at least hope the vert feature can make the glyphs rotate properly, but I don't know what triggers the feature to show up.

if HTML commands can activate opentype features then perhaps I could use vert and rtla features.
Erwin Denissen
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Re: Some issues regarding my font

Post by Erwin Denissen »

Ahzoh wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:00 am And for added difficulty, the HTML command writing-mode: vertical-rl and vertical-lr seems to only rotate text 90 degrees clockwise, which is fine for Mongolian where its letters are "upside-down" by default, but my letters are "right-side up" so when I use that command it doesn't really work. It seems like PUA characters do not rotate as fully as Latin characters would when using the same HTML commands. I at least hope the vert feature can make the glyphs rotate properly, but I don't know what triggers the feature to show up.

if HTML commands can activate opentype features then perhaps I could use vert and rtla features.
You could try this in .css:

writing-mode: vertical-lr;
text-orientation: upright;
Erwin Denissen
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Ahzoh
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Re: Some issues regarding my font

Post by Ahzoh »

Erwin Denissen wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:53 am You could try this in .css:

writing-mode: vertical-lr;
text-orientation: upright;
So I gave that a try and all it really did was make the text basically the equivalent of:
T
E
X
T
I do have a way to properly display the font in the desire way, it's just rather clunky:
<span style="writing-mode: vertical-rl; transform: scale(-1, -1)" dir="rtl">
It's the best I'm going to get.

I did assign my glyphs to the Adlam script codepoints to at least have the RTL functionality, although I plan on having it assigned to codepoints under the ConScript Unicode Registry, which uses the PUA, so it's only a temporary solution. I did read something on these forums about modifying the shaper.txt or something like that to change the default direction of characters, but I can't find this document and I'm not really experienced enough to start messing around with that.

But anyways, there is also the issue that Miscrosoft Word (and my Iphone) doesn't want to display the calts in my font, even when I have them turned on.

And also, I showed the picture of my fonts metrics earlier, it's fine to have the Typo Ascender the same as the Win Ascent? And the same for Typo Descender and Win Descent?
Erwin Denissen
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Re: Some issues regarding my font

Post by Erwin Denissen »

Ahzoh wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:35 am And also, I showed the picture of my fonts metrics earlier, it's fine to have the Typo Ascender the same as the Win Ascent? And the same for Typo Descender and Win Descent?
That is possible. To better understand the meaning of these values, I suggest you read this tutorial:
Font Metrics – Vertical Line Spacing
Erwin Denissen
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