Open Type Question

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Erwin Denissen
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Re: Open Type Question

Post by Erwin Denissen » Mon May 20, 2013 8:24 am

Alfred wrote:
Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:The ligatures must be defined as new glyphs, so add three more glyphs, import the outlines from Illustrator, resize them to the right height, then use the Glyph Properties toolbar (F3) to rename the ligature glyphs to ir, jr, ra, etc., and click Apply.
To avoid potential conflict with Unicode names, wouldn't it be safer to rename them as i_r, j_r, r_a, etc?
I also recommend to use an underscore between glyph names.
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Re: Open Type Question

Post by William » Mon May 20, 2013 8:40 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote: rlig and liga seem to be almost identical — dlig would be disabled by default.

I think that the difference between rlig and liga is that rlig is to contain things such as the following, where ZWJ is the U+200D ZERO WIDTH JOINER character so as to force a ligature, whether ligatures are turned on or not..

sub c ZWJ t -> c_t;
sub s ZWJ t -> s_t;

http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U2000.pdf

The liga table is used when ligatures are turned on.

The dlig table is used when discretionary ligatures are turned on.

Ligatures such as c_t and s_t are sometimes placed in the dlig table.

William

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Re: Open Type Question

Post by William » Mon May 20, 2013 10:08 am

Thank you for uploading your font.

I have downloaded a copy and tried it out.

Please know that I too am learning about OpenType.

I opened the file in FontCreator 7 but could not get any OpenType source code.

I was not that surprised as I am wondering if the source code is in the project file and that that is perhaps why High-Logic has introduced a project file.

I tried the font in Serif PagePlus X5 and found that I got some results. Please know that I am still learning as to how to use the OpenType facilities of PagePlus X5.

There is an LA ligature that works well. The la is not a ligature as far as I can tell.

The fractions 1/4 1/2 3/4 all substitute the glyph well.

I also got the ~N and the ~n to work.

That was all that I could find.

I appreciate that this may be a development stage of the font where you are testing to find out if you have got the technique right.

The items that I found seem to be working well.

Is there anything else OpenType in the font that I have not found?

William

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Re: Open Type Question

Post by heathert » Mon May 20, 2013 10:13 am

Thanks so much, William! Yes, there should be at least 104 substitutions : i + all 26 letters should each result in a combined glyph; the same for l, r, and j.

The diacritical glyphs aren't open-type--they're just normal ascii fill-ins.

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Re: Open Type Question

Post by heathert » Mon May 20, 2013 10:16 am

I think I can attach the source code separately. Oh. The extension otlfd is not allowed for attachment uploads. Sorry... :)

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Re: Open Type Question

Post by William » Mon May 20, 2013 10:58 am

heathert wrote:I think I can attach the source code separately. Oh. The extension otlfd is not allowed for attachment uploads. Sorry... :)

If you would like to post the source code, you could try copying it onto the clipboard from the FontCreator 7 OpenType Layout Feature Editor window and then paste it into the panel in which you write your posts to this forum.

William

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Re: Open Type Question

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Mon May 20, 2013 11:06 am

To preview features in the Font Test window, remember to set the export options to use your Custom Script. Here is one I made earlier using the liga feature instead of rlig.

Code: Select all

script latn {
  feature StandardLigatures;
}

feature StandardLigatures liga {
  lookup StandardLigatures;
}

lookup StandardLigatures {
  sub a j -> AJ;
  sub b j -> BJ;
  sub d j -> DJ;
  sub e j -> EJ;
  sub i j -> IJ;
  sub n j -> NJ;
  sub o j -> OJ;
  sub p j -> PJ;
  sub i a -> IA;
  sub i b -> IB;
  sub i c -> IC;
  sub i d -> ID;
  sub i e -> IE;
  sub i f -> IF;
  sub i g -> IG;
  sub i h -> IH;
  sub i i -> II;
  sub i j -> IJ;
  sub i k -> IK;
  sub i l -> IL;
  sub i m -> IM;
  sub i n -> IN;
  sub i o -> IO;
  sub i p -> IP;
  sub i q -> IQ;
  sub i r -> IR;
  sub i s -> IS;
  sub i t -> IT;
  sub i u -> IU;
  sub i v -> IV;
  sub i w -> IW;
  sub i x -> IX;
  sub i y -> IY;
  sub i z -> IZ;
  sub l a -> LA;
  sub l b -> LB;
  sub l c -> LC;
  sub l d -> LD;
  sub l e -> LE;
  sub l f -> LF;
  sub l g -> LG;
  sub l h -> LH;
  sub l i -> LI;
  sub l j -> LJ;
  sub l k -> LK;
  sub l l -> LL;
  sub l m -> LM;
  sub l n -> LN;
  sub l o -> LO;
  sub l p -> LP;
  sub l q -> LQ;
  sub l r -> LR;
  sub l s -> LS;
  sub l t -> LT;
  sub l u -> LU;
  sub l v -> LV;
  sub l w -> LW;
  sub l x -> LX;
  sub l y -> LY;
  sub l z -> LZ;
  sub r a -> RA;
  sub r b -> RB;
  sub r c -> RC;
  sub r d -> RD;
  sub r e -> RE;
  sub r f -> RF;
  sub r g -> RG;
  sub r h -> RH;
  sub r i -> RI;
  sub r j -> RJ;
  sub r k -> RK;
  sub r l -> RL;
  sub r m -> RM;
  sub r n -> RN;
  sub r o -> RO;
  sub r p -> RP;
  sub r q -> RQ;
  sub r r -> RR;
  sub r s -> RS;
  sub r t -> RT;
  sub r u -> RU;
  sub r v -> RV;
  sub r w -> RW;
  sub r x -> RX;
  sub r y -> RY;
  sub r z -> RZ;
}
Last edited by Bhikkhu Pesala on Mon May 20, 2013 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Updated script
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Re: Open Type Question

Post by William » Mon May 20, 2013 11:20 am

heathert wrote:Thanks so much, William! Yes, there should be at least 104 substitutions : i + all 26 letters should each result in a combined glyph; the same for l, r, and j.

Well, I tried again in Serif PagePlus X5.

I could get LA to work but not LE.
heathert wrote:
The diacritical glyphs aren't open-type--they're just normal ascii fill-ins.

Well the ~N and ~n seemed to be OpenType.

I would be interested to have a look at the source code if that is possible please.

William

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Re: Open Type Question

Post by Alfred » Mon May 20, 2013 11:31 am

William wrote:
heathert wrote:I think I can attach the source code separately. Oh. The extension otlfd is not allowed for attachment uploads. Sorry... :)

If you would like to post the source code, you could try copying it onto the clipboard from the FontCreator 7 OpenType Layout Feature Editor window and then paste it into the panel in which you write your posts to this forum.

William
Alternatively, you could zip it up and attach it that way. Plain text is more immediately accessible, of course, but it's best to click the 'Code' button on the message toolbar to distinguish the code from the rest of your message text; this also has the advantage of adding a scrollbar and a 'Select All' link to the text area where the code is displayed, as you can see from Bhikkhu Pesala's latest post.
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Re: Open Type Question

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Mon May 20, 2013 11:47 am

Better still, attach the project file, which includes both the font with its current glyph names and the otlfd script.
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Re: Open Type Question

Post by William » Mon May 20, 2013 11:56 am

Alfred wrote:..., but it's best to click the 'Code' button on the message toolbar ...
I had not realized that one could do that.

Thank you.

William

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Re: Open Type Question

Post by William » Mon May 20, 2013 2:30 pm

I have had another look at the font in PagePlus X5.

As far as I can tell, bearing in mind that I am learning both OpenType in FontCreator and OpenType in PagePlus, I can only find the following OpenType features in the font.

clig Contextual Ligatures ~N and ~n
dlig Discretionary Ligatures LA
frac Fractions / 1/2 1/4 3/4

I do not know what is the significance of the / on its own being listed in frac by PagePlus.

I have not found any entries for liga at all.

As a check I then tried my Ligatures 002 test font that is supposed to have only a liga table for da fi and fl ligatures and PagePlus X5 listed those as follows.

liga Standard Ligatures da fi fl

I hope that this helps.

For anyone who also has PagePlus X5, I am finding this information from the following.

Format
Character...
OpenType
Details

It would be helpful if someone with PagePlus X5 or maybe PagePlus X6 could try the Sqwash font in PagePlus and check my results please.

William

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Re: Open Type Question

Post by heathert » Mon May 20, 2013 2:57 pm

Ok, I just attached the project file. Thanks so much for all the help!
Attachments
Sqwash.fcp
(46.09 KiB) Downloaded 198 times

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Re: Open Type Question

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Mon May 20, 2013 4:14 pm

William wrote:It would be helpful if someone with PagePlus X5 or maybe PagePlus X6 could try the Sqwash font in PagePlus and check my results please.
Its really not necessary to install the font, or test it in PagePlus. Users can test the font in the Font Test window while they are developing it.
heathert wrote:Ok, I just attached the project file. Thanks so much for all the help!
The problem with this font is that the Default OpenType features have been used, not the custom features.

In the Font Export Settings, you must select the Custom template to use the code that you have so painstakingly written. Since this font has no lowercase, you could have saved some time by copying the lowercase glyphs, and adding their code-points to the uppercase glyphs. Then you wouldn't have needed the lines: sub A R -> AR; etc., just sub a r -> AR;
Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:I don't think you need to duplicate each gsub. Just map each unicase glyph to both cases — e.g. "A" and "a" then do:

Code: Select all

sub a r -> ar;
Attachments
Squash Export Settings.png
Squash Export Settings.png (14.29 KiB) Viewed 5662 times
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Re: Open Type Question

Post by William » Mon May 20, 2013 4:16 pm

Thank you for uploading your project file.

I downloaded a copy of your project file and tried to produce a font.

This was successful.

I noticed that the OpenType code was all for the rlig table.

I compiled the OpenType code with success.

I used the following selection in the Export Settings panel of FontCreator.

Include OpenType Features Custom Script

PagePlus X5 then showed the presence of an rlig table yet not the tables that were found using the font that was available from earlier in this thread.

PagePlus X5 did not treat an rlig as absolutely on. Its use needed to be switched on.

William

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