Changing the Order of Precedence of OpenType Features

Get help with FontCreator here. Please do not post feature requests or bug reports here.
Post Reply
Bhikkhu Pesala
Top Typographer
Top Typographer
Posts: 8292
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 5:28 am
Location: Seven Kings, London UK
Contact:

Changing the Order of Precedence of OpenType Features

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Feb 03, 2016 8:56 pm

I am sure that I used to be able to change the order by using the Up and Down arrows in the OpenType Designer.

In 9.1, they no longer have any effect. Has something changed that prevents this, or is there another way to do it? Suppose that I want Tabular Figures to be used if both Tnum and Onum are enabled?
Changing Order of Precedence.png
Changing Order of Precedence.png (157.68 KiB) Viewed 2249 times
My FontsReviews: MainTypeFont CreatorHelpFC12 Pro + MT8.0 @ Win10 1809 build 17763.615

MikeW
Posts: 584
Joined: Mon May 20, 2013 2:51 pm

Re: Changing the Order of Precedence of OpenType Features

Post by MikeW » Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:14 pm

Hmm. I thought so too. Now only the lookups can move up/down.

Bhikkhu Pesala
Top Typographer
Top Typographer
Posts: 8292
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 5:28 am
Location: Seven Kings, London UK
Contact:

Re: Changing the Order of Precedence of OpenType Features

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:27 pm

The features can be moved in the scripts, not where they're listed above the lookups, where they always appear in alphabetical order.
My FontsReviews: MainTypeFont CreatorHelpFC12 Pro + MT8.0 @ Win10 1809 build 17763.615

Erwin Denissen
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8233
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2002 12:41 am
Location: Bilthoven, The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Changing the Order of Precedence of OpenType Features

Post by Erwin Denissen » Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:54 pm

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Has something changed that prevents this, or is there another way to do it? Suppose that I want Tabular Figures to be used if both Tnum and Onum are enabled?
Regardless of the feature order, the lookup order is important.

So if you want Tabular Figures to be used if both Tnum and Onum are enabled, make sure the TabularFigures lookup is above the OldStyleFigures in the lookup list.

See the result:
LookupOrder.png
LookupOrder.png (120.17 KiB) Viewed 2244 times
Erwin Denissen
High-Logic
Proven Font Technology

Bhikkhu Pesala
Top Typographer
Top Typographer
Posts: 8292
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 5:28 am
Location: Seven Kings, London UK
Contact:

Re: Changing the Order of Precedence of OpenType Features

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Feb 03, 2016 10:15 pm

That's working for Balava, but not for OpenSans.
My FontsReviews: MainTypeFont CreatorHelpFC12 Pro + MT8.0 @ Win10 1809 build 17763.615

Erwin Denissen
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8233
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2002 12:41 am
Location: Bilthoven, The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Changing the Order of Precedence of OpenType Features

Post by Erwin Denissen » Wed Feb 03, 2016 10:31 pm

It should be, as this is the only way as far as I know.

OpenSans contains two lookups in onum as well as two lookups in tnum. What is not working?
Erwin Denissen
High-Logic
Proven Font Technology

Bhikkhu Pesala
Top Typographer
Top Typographer
Posts: 8292
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 5:28 am
Location: Seven Kings, London UK
Contact:

Re: Changing the Order of Precedence of OpenType Features

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Feb 03, 2016 10:39 pm

I noticed the pairs of lookups and moved both of them, and tried moving the lookups in the Moldavian and Romanian scripts too, but I still cannot get Tnum to override Onum whatever I do, if they are both enabled. There's a Pnum feature too, and that won't override Onum either.

Here is my modified version.
My FontsReviews: MainTypeFont CreatorHelpFC12 Pro + MT8.0 @ Win10 1809 build 17763.615

Erwin Denissen
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8233
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2002 12:41 am
Location: Bilthoven, The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Changing the Order of Precedence of OpenType Features

Post by Erwin Denissen » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:00 pm

I find the substitutions rather confusing. Maybe they didn't work the way you think they should work.
Erwin Denissen
High-Logic
Proven Font Technology

Bhikkhu Pesala
Top Typographer
Top Typographer
Posts: 8292
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 5:28 am
Location: Seven Kings, London UK
Contact:

Re: Changing the Order of Precedence of OpenType Features

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Thu Feb 04, 2016 6:40 am

The lnum, onum, pnum, and tnum features were already in the font when I started work on it to added ordn, ornm, and frac.

I am easily confused. I will look at some of my older fonts, and see if I can sort out a system that works how I want.

At least the up and down arrows are working as intended to reorder the lookups.
My FontsReviews: MainTypeFont CreatorHelpFC12 Pro + MT8.0 @ Win10 1809 build 17763.615

Erwin Denissen
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8233
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2002 12:41 am
Location: Bilthoven, The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Changing the Order of Precedence of OpenType Features

Post by Erwin Denissen » Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:39 am

Since the regular digits in OpenSans are already monospaced, the TabularFigures are a little different than usual.

From what I understand; In case both onum and tnum are enabled and TabularFigures comes after OldstyleFigures, the TabularFigures undo what OldstyleFigures did. If the order is different, then TabularFigures is doing nothing, and then OldstyleFigures does its work.
Erwin Denissen
High-Logic
Proven Font Technology

Post Reply