AutoMetrics

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Karin1610
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AutoMetrics

Post by Karin1610 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:16 pm

I'm a bit confused because AutoMetrics generates different results every time I run it, depending on the side bearings values before running the tool.
When I start with fixed side bearings of 100, the outcome is different than when I start with all side bearings at 50.
I would have thought that, if the glyph shapes are used for calculating the side bearings, the results should always be the same, because the glyphs don't change, no matter what side bearings I start with.
Now when I look at my "M" for instance ... sometimes after running AutoMetrics the LSB is bigger than the RSB, sometimes it's the other way around.
I don't quite know how to decide which result is "right".

Erwin Denissen
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Re: AutoMetrics

Post by Erwin Denissen » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:53 pm

It should provide equal results. We are about the release an update which contains improvements to Optical Metrics. I'll send you a link to it so you can give it a try.
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Karin1610
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Re: AutoMetrics

Post by Karin1610 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:56 pm

Aweome, thanks a lot for this! I'll try out as soon as I can! :D

Karin1610
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Re: AutoMetrics

Post by Karin1610 » Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:05 am

@Erwin: I just realized that the link you sent me was for FontCreator 11.0, but I still have 10.1. Is there gonna be an update for this version, too?

Also, I tried the update version on my laptop (which is 64 bit, so I could install it there) and ran AutoMetrics on an installed font, just to see what it does.
What's different than in my version is that, if I set fixed side bearings for all glyphs before running the tool, the value doesn't matter. The results will be the same (I tried with 50, 100 and 200). But if I run AutoMetrics several times in a row, the results still do vary.

Erwin Denissen
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Re: AutoMetrics

Post by Erwin Denissen » Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:57 am

Karin1610 wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:05 am
@Erwin: I just realized that the link you sent me was for FontCreator 11.0, but I still have 10.1. Is there gonna be an update for this version, too?

Also, I tried the update version on my laptop (which is 64 bit, so I could install it there) and ran AutoMetrics on an installed font, just to see what it does.
What's different than in my version is that, if I set fixed side bearings for all glyphs before running the tool, the value doesn't matter. The results will be the same (I tried with 50, 100 and 200). But if I run AutoMetrics several times in a row, the results still do vary.
I'm sorry but we never update older versions. It would take way too much time and effort.

I think the algorithm will indeed show minor differences, but shouldn't show too much differences.
Erwin Denissen
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Karin1610
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Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:07 am

Re: AutoMetrics

Post by Karin1610 » Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:10 am

Erwin Denissen wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:57 am
I'm sorry but we never update older versions. It would take way too much time and effort.
That's what I thought.
Erwin Denissen wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:57 am
I think the algorithm will indeed show minor differences, but shouldn't show too much differences.
The thing is, I don't really know what differences would be considered minor or big. I have no experience in font making whatsoever, though I'm trying to learn as much as I can. But I'm still just a beginner.
When I purchased FontCreator I chose the Professional Edition first and foremost for the AutoMetrics and AutoKern features. Now I'm not sure how much I can really rely on them.
What irritates me is that, depending on what side bearings I start with before running AutoMetrics, sometimes the LSB end up being bigger, sometimes the RSB.
For instance my "M":
Starting with fixed side bearings of 100 for all glyphs, AutoMetrics will make the side bearings 158/132. If I run it again it's 143/158. That seems weird to my amateur brain. I would have thought it does matter which one is bigger and that there are some basic rules about this.
I'm totally uncertain about how to interpret this and would greatly appreciate any tips.

Erwin Denissen
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Re: AutoMetrics

Post by Erwin Denissen » Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:29 pm

Karin1610 wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:10 am
Erwin Denissen wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:57 am
I'm sorry but we never update older versions. It would take way too much time and effort.
That's what I thought.
Erwin Denissen wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:57 am
I think the algorithm will indeed show minor differences, but shouldn't show too much differences.
The thing is, I don't really know what differences would be considered minor or big. I have no experience in font making whatsoever, though I'm trying to learn as much as I can. But I'm still just a beginner.
When I purchased FontCreator I chose the Professional Edition first and foremost for the AutoMetrics and AutoKern features. Now I'm not sure how much I can really rely on them.
What irritates me is that, depending on what side bearings I start with before running AutoMetrics, sometimes the LSB end up being bigger, sometimes the RSB.
For instance my "M":
Starting with fixed side bearings of 100 for all glyphs, AutoMetrics will make the side bearings 158/132. If I run it again it's 143/158. That seems weird to my amateur brain. I would have thought it does matter which one is bigger and that there are some basic rules about this.
I'm totally uncertain about how to interpret this and would greatly appreciate any tips.
I can give some more feedback, but I would first like to know this:

Are these values a result from running the latest unpublished version 11?
Erwin Denissen
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Karin1610
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Re: AutoMetrics

Post by Karin1610 » Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:47 pm

No, these are from 10.1 because this is what I have to work with for now.

Erwin Denissen
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Re: AutoMetrics

Post by Erwin Denissen » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:01 pm

We are aware the algorithm isn't perfect, so we improved it in the upcoming release. However it is still not perfect, but a little closer.

Most font designers tend to keep left and right side bearings equal for horizontally symmetrical glyphs. FontCreator uses a slightly different approach, so this is not always identical. Version 10 does generate really good side bearings, and the upcoming release is even better. But even then, it is always wise to manually inspect and if needed adjust the results.
Erwin Denissen
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Karin1610
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:07 am

Re: AutoMetrics

Post by Karin1610 » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:12 pm

Erwin Denissen wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:01 pm
We are aware the algorithm isn't perfect, so we improved it in the upcoming release. However it is still not perfect, but a little closer.
Oh, I'm certainly not aiming for my font to become perfect. That's impossible, considering my lack of experience. However, I'm a perfectionist nonetheless (however contratictory this might be, lol), that's why I try to get it as good as even possible.
Erwin Denissen wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:01 pm
Most font designers tend to keep left and right side bearings equal for horizontally symmetrical glyphs.
Really? I guess then I must have only looked at fonts where this is not the case. But good to know that there's not really a "right" or "wrong" here.
Erwin Denissen wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:01 pm
The upcoming release will generate really good side bearings, but it is always wise to manually inspect and adjust the results.
Yes, of course, I'm aware of this, but the better the foundation I can start with, the easier it will be for me.
Will there be a notification on the forum when the new release is out? I do consider getting an upgrade to 11.

Karin1610
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Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:07 am

Re: AutoMetrics

Post by Karin1610 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:31 am

Hello again! I just meant to ask if the updated version will be released soon.
I decided to buy the upgrade to FC 11 and now I'm just waiting for this so I can keep on working. :)

Erwin Denissen
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Re: AutoMetrics

Post by Erwin Denissen » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:34 am

We released the final private build yesterday and had to fix one more issue. We're now updating the user manual, so we intend to release it tomorrow morning!
Erwin Denissen
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Karin1610
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Re: AutoMetrics

Post by Karin1610 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:46 am

That's great! Thank you! :D

Erwin Denissen
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Re: AutoMetrics

Post by Erwin Denissen » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:18 pm

We've just released the promised update!
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Karin1610
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Re: AutoMetrics

Post by Karin1610 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:52 pm

Awesome! Thanks a lot for letting me know!

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