Nutso font doesn’t work correctly

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deaneau
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Nutso font doesn’t work correctly

Post by deaneau » Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:30 am

In Adobe Products the Nutso font doesn’t work correctly. Only Affinity Designer does it right.

Is there a solution that will work in all Programs?

When I look at this font with the OpenType Designer I don't understand what I see there.

Thank you in advance
Dean

P.S. I'm a beginner in Font Design

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Last edited by Bhikkhu Pesala on Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Split old topic to new thread

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Re: Nutso font doesn’t work correctly

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:37 am

The stacking fractions feature is much simpler if one uses precomposed fractions.

I could not open a copy of the Nutso font to see how it's done, but I assume that it is still experimental.

This is how my alternative fractions feature is designed in Pali:
Alternative Fractions.png
Alternative Fractions.png (77.02 KiB) Viewed 1173 times
The fractions feature is more complex, but will work with any denominator or numerator as the divisor does not need to change.
Fraction Feature.png
Fraction Feature.png (9.16 KiB) Viewed 1173 times
Bottom Line: Among those few users who need stacking fractions with unlimited numerators and denominators how many would expect to use OpenType features for this, and how many would just use an equation editor? Is it really worth the effort needed to implement this to work on most applications.
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deaneau
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Re: Nutso font doesn’t work correctly

Post by deaneau » Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:21 pm

hi,
yes this is the easy way however not really flexible.

in the pic, you can see how you can download. is a little bit tricky ;-)
download zip
inside the zip, you can see different versions of

Nutso is only a font with Numbers etc.

stacked fraction must work in AI, ID and other software that works with open type features.

thank you in advance.

@Bhikkhu Pesala my question is. how I can transfer this features to other fonts to have the stacked fraction features?

Nutso: https://github.com/TiroTypeworks/Nutso

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Re: Nutso font doesn’t work correctly

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:55 pm

deaneau wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:21 pm
How I can transfer this features to other fonts to have the stacked fraction features?
Copy/paste the glyphs, and copy/paste the relevant code (afrc feature, lookup tables, kerning pairs), from the code editor.

However, as noted the code does not work in AI, ID, etc.
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Erwin Denissen
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Re: Nutso font doesn’t work correctly

Post by Erwin Denissen » Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:29 pm

deaneau wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:30 am
In Adobe Products the Nutso font doesn’t work correctly. Only Affinity Designer does it right.
The Nutso font also requires the <mark> and <mkmk> features to be supported and active. It seems that is the issue with Adobe Illustrator. Not sure if you can enabled them to make it work.

The github project comes with samples for Adobe InDesign CS6, so I wonder if those still work in recent version of ID?
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deaneau
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Re: Nutso font doesn’t work correctly

Post by deaneau » Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:07 pm

@Erwin i have only activaded this and the result is the same in Illustrator.

in InDesign i have seen in the demo file that fraction looks correct, however, when I write the fraction normal like 1 1/33 I see a hangover like the pictures above the first post.

@Bhikkhu yes when this would be work right.

I see the dam... stacked fraction is a big problem.
2018-11-25_15h54_10.png
2018-11-25_15h54_10.png (7.47 KiB) Viewed 1145 times

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Re: Nutso font doesn’t work correctly

Post by Erwin Denissen » Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:55 pm

deaneau wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:07 pm
in InDesign i have seen in the demo file that fraction looks correct, however, when I write the fraction normal like 1 1/33 I see a hangover like the pictures above the first post.

@Bhikkhu yes when this would be work right.

I see the dam... stacked fraction is a big problem.
As noted in the Nutso v1.02, 19 February 2014 release notes:
"Some care needs to be taken when editing text employing nut fractions implemented as in Nutso: the fraction feature must only be applied to discreet runs of characters in the appropriate format, and tracking (letterspacing) functions must not be applied to the fractions."

Maybe Nutso2 better suits your needs.
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Re: Nutso font doesn’t work correctly

Post by Erwin Denissen » Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:35 pm

You might want to consider using Diagonal Fractions.
FractionsMore.png
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Re: Nutso font doesn’t work correctly

Post by MikeW » Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:41 pm

My AI CS6 doesn't implement marks. I suspect the newest version does as I don't think there is anything special needed to turn on the ME features (for which in older AI versions, the actual ME version is required...though I believe it can be scripted, ID can).

My ID CS6 works properly as long as one only highlights (as mentioned by Erwin) those characters that make up the fraction. One cannot just turn on Fractions or also select the whole number portions (if any).

This same thing applies in the Affinity products. Just select the numerals that make up the fraction itself. So whether in ID or Affinity applications, make a character style that has the Fraction feature enabled, perhaps assign a shortcut for it, then use it to apply the frac feature only to selected fractions.
Last edited by Bhikkhu Pesala on Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: corrected typo

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Re: Nutso font doesn’t work correctly

Post by MikeW » Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:34 pm

OK. For versions of Illy that do not have the World Ready Composer (WRC), it can be turned on by opening a template that has been made using ME versions.

Here's a screen shot of the WRC turned on in my non-ME version of Illy CS6:
capture-002341.png
capture-002341.png (21.99 KiB) Viewed 1128 times
One such template I found is available at Thomas Phinny's web site. Scroll down to the Templates section.

http://www.thomasphinney.com/2009/01/ad ... -composer/

However, in new enough versions, you may be able to turn on the WRC without a template. If you are using a newer version of AI CC, poke around and find out if you can turn on the WRC for it.

Mike

deaneau
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Re: Nutso font doesn’t work correctly

Post by deaneau » Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:34 pm

@Erwin i have try all versions in AI and ID

thank you for a guide to diagonal fraction stroke
actually is the horizontal fraction stroke more important ;-)

@Mike i work with CC2018
2018-11-25_21h22_18.png
2018-11-25_21h22_18.png (11.37 KiB) Viewed 1123 times
2018-11-25_21h31_24.gif
2018-11-25_21h31_24.gif (442.57 KiB) Viewed 1123 times

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Re: Nutso font doesn’t work correctly

Post by MikeW » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:51 pm

Is that paragraph using the WRT? Does it work in the templates I pointed to?

deaneau
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Re: Nutso font doesn’t work correctly

Post by deaneau » Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:28 pm

@Mike

I'm newcomer in font design and FontDesigner, what is WRT?
in CC2018 the templates work only in InDesign. however when I write in InDesign its not possible to have the same result.

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Re: Nutso font doesn’t work correctly

Post by MikeW » Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:29 pm

World Ready Composer = WRC: I accidentally used a T at the end instead of C...

The AI template should have opened fine in AI.

It works fine in ID & AI CS6. If it doesn't in ID CC2018 then that points to either a problem that has crept in or one actually has to use an ME version (ME = Middle Eastern but the ME version incorporates more languages that use complex scripts, like Indic languages), which you can download freely.

Certain OpenType features are disabled (have always been disabled) in non-ME versions for whatever reason. Among those are certain features required to make the Nutso fonts work properly as these features regarding marks for placement purposes that Nutso uses are used widely in Middle Eastern and complex scripts (such as Indic languages).

I don't know what to say at this point.

Mike

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Re: Nutso font doesn’t work correctly

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:42 pm

Font Designers and Coders are often obsessive. Sometimes they need to step back and reflect on whether something is worth doing, even if it can be done. In this case, I suspect that it cannot because not all applications support the same set of features.

Have you evaluated the need for this feature? Is it just for your own use, or are you hoping to sell the font? Or is it just the challenge of solving a puzzle that makes you expend so much effort on this task?
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