Need Help with Handwriting Font

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Psymon
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Re: Need help with Handwriting Font

Post by Psymon » Sun Oct 04, 2020 3:21 pm

Erwin Denissen wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:23 pm
It seems class0 is not working as expected. We are not sure if it is a bug in FontCreator, but for now better avoid it.
I was about to reply "But I didn't use that class0 anywhere," but I figured before doing so I better check my font -- and instantly found what you were referring to.

My bad! That should've been my @LATIN class instead. I'm not even sure what that class0 is supposed to be used for? I read the description of it, but I still couldn't quite understand it.

In any case, thank you for pointing that out! I've fixed that, and presume it should fix the problem. :)

Any suggestions on how to get my two fonts the same size (so to speak), to work well together as I described? I can only think that there must surely be a fairly simple way to do that -- but I just haven't a clue what that might be. :roll:

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Re: Need help with Handwriting Font

Post by Erwin Denissen » Sun Oct 04, 2020 4:05 pm

Psymon wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:45 am
ALSO, as you probably noted in the above image samples, one other thing I need to do is get both fonts to match up to the baseline better -- but I can just use that "Move" function in the glyph transformer for that, right, and just bump up the entire font a tiny bit all at once?
Yes, you can use the Transform Wizard to move outlines of several glyphs at once. You can use the Undo in case you do not like the result, and try again.
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Re: Need help with Handwriting Font

Post by Psymon » Sun Oct 04, 2020 4:34 pm

Yeah, come to think of it, I now remember that I already used that "move" function before, when I created my Alde family of fonts -- so that's the easy part!

I haven't the slightest clue how to get my two fonts the same size in the first place, though. I'm assuming that it's a matter of "getting all the lines to match up" (so to speak), that is, getting my x-height, cap-height, etc. to all be the same, but the easiest way that I can think of to do that is to just start practically from scratch -- open up my Thoreau font, "save as" as a new Falsum font (the one of my own handwriting, which I want to match up to my Thoreau font), and then copy/paste each glyph, one at a time, from Falsum into the slots that were my Thoreau font.

If that makes any sense -- but all I can think is that surely there must be an easier way? Like, in the Font Properties dialog there's all those tabs, with various buttons to "calculate" different things. I always do run those "calculate" things, but I don't entirely know what they all mean.

If I wanted to make my Falsum font match up with my Thoreau font, then I presume I could just simply copy/paste certain numbers from within the Font Properties dialog from one font to the other, and that would do the trick?

But which numbers? There's a LOT of different numbers, lots of different "calculate" buttons.

Or maybe I'm off in the wrong direction, and there's another, better way to do this??? :roll:

Psymon
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Re: Need help with Handwriting Font

Post by Psymon » Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:18 pm

Y'know, if I could get my two handwriting fonts to "size up" nicely along with my 5 Alde fonts...

http://www.psymon.com/fonts/alde.html

...that would be AMAZING. As it is now, the 5 Alde fonts work well together -- and they were designed to do so, of course -- but if you switch the text to my Walden (Thoreau) font then it comes out disproportionately "smaller."

It would be just AMAZING if I could get all of these fonts working well together, though! Like, if I was so inclined, I might create something with an "antiquarian look," as though it was made back in ye olden days, with text that was "printed" with moveable type (my Alde fonts) interspersed with handwritten text (my two handwriting fonts).

And for the user to be able to just simply have a bunch of text they want to put together, and change the font indiscriminately anywhere within that text, and not have to also then change the point size, too.

If anyone can explain how to go about doing that, you'd have a friend for life! <3 :lol:

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Re: Need help with Handwriting Font

Post by Psymon » Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:41 pm

I'm surprised nobody seems able to answer my query re how to get two separate fonts to "size up" nicely together. I would think that that would be a fairly straightforward thing to do -- I just don't have a clue how to go about doing it (except a long-winded, rather laborious way of going about it).

I wonder if I should post that particular question separate from this thread? It's not specifically about handwriting fonts, but could be used for all sorts of contexts, of course, and so perhaps if I posted that particular question separately, maybe that might help elicit a response?

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Re: Need help with Handwriting Font

Post by Erwin Denissen » Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:53 pm

Please be aware I am on the technical side of fonts, but I think you have to manually inspect all outlines. If glyph outlines dimensions are not in sync, you could try to resize some through the Glyph Transform wizard.
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Re: Need help with Handwriting Font

Post by Psymon » Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:07 pm

Erwin Denissen wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:53 pm
Please be aware I am on the technical side of fonts, but I think you have to manually inspect all outlines. If glyph outlines dimensions are not in sync, you could try to resize some through the Glyph Transform wizard.
Pardon my stupidity, but I have no idea what you mean. :oops:

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Re: Need Help with Handwriting Font

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:00 am

I tried to split this topic to save Psymon the trouble of starting a new topic on Resizing Glyphs to Match Another Font. Unfortunately, the split posts have disappeared.

Sorry about that. I have asked Erwin to look into it.
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Re: Need Help with Handwriting Font

Post by Erwin Denissen » Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:32 am

I am sorry, but I was not able to fix it. I still have my screenshots.
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Re: Need Help with Handwriting Font

Post by Psymon » Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:01 am

Oh no! You mean the whole first bunch of posts in this thread are all gone now? That's what seems to be the case for me.

Well, for ME it's not so bad, because what disappeared was stuff I've resolved already -- but I guess it's a shame for others who may have stumbled in here looking for the same info I was before.

Oh well. But on a happier note, I did bite the bullet and today took the laborious route to getting both my fonts to be "the same size" (so to speak).

Here's a new, revised version of that sample I posted earlier, when I asked my question about this -- except now with my fonts looking more like they might be two writing styles from the same person.

At least, that's what I was HOPING to achieve with this -- but I don't know if it's quite having the effect that I'd been striving for.

I don't know -- whaddayas think? Do those two fonts go okay together, used as I have here (in particular the latter paragraphs, at the bottom)? Ignore the minor kerning that my Falsum font can use, of course -- just haven't gotten that far yet.

Thoreau-Falsum Comparison 3.jpg
Thoreau-Falsum Comparison 3.jpg (465.73 KiB) Viewed 261 times

Psymon
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Re: Need Help with Handwriting Font

Post by Psymon » Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:25 am

I wonder if my Falsum font should be ever-so-slightly bolder, just a teeny, teeny, teeny tiny bit, just to give it an ever-so-subtle more "emphatic" effect, and stand out just a tiny bit more.

But definitely only the tiniest little bit, because I was trying to make these lines look as though they were drawn by the same person, with the same pen.

Whaddaya think? I'm open to any other suggestions to do this better, of course -- or, indeed, if you think this is just a horrid idea and these fonts just don't belong together at all, please do speak up! :lol:

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Re: Need Help with Handwriting Font

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:21 am

Psymon wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:01 am
Oh no! You mean the whole first bunch of posts in this thread are all gone now? That's what seems to be the case for me.
Not the first bunch, but the last bunch from the one starting "Sorry to be a pest," which asked how to resize the glyphs in your handwriting font to match those in your Alde fonts.
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Psymon
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Re: Need Help with Handwriting Font

Post by Psymon » Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:37 am

Odd, I seem to be missing the whole, entire beginning of the thread. I think there were 4 "pages" before? Now there's 2.

Oh well.

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Re: Need Help with Handwriting Font

Post by PJMiller » Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:04 am

It seems to be the earlier posts in this interesting thread which have disappeared for me.

There are two things you need to do to make two fonts line up. Firstly the metrics which control the line spacing should be the same of very similar and secondly the character spacing ( 'tools' -> 'optical metrics' ) should be changed. The optical metrics doesn't necessarily need to be the same, but a value which will make the fonts take up a similar copy fit.

In viewtopic.php?p=33921#p33921 there is a listing of a much larger selection of preview samples, I use the 'Lorem ipsum ...' sample in a large preview window to view several lines of text then switch between the fonts to see the difference in copy fit. If you have a large window with many lines at a small point size and the line breaks happen in the same places then the fonts are comparable in copy fit.

I use this method to try to make the italic and bold versions of the font take up a similar space to the roman version (it isn't always possible). Usually the italic and bold versions of the font need a tighter spacing to achieve the same copy fit.

Hope this helps.

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Re: Need Help with Handwriting Font

Post by Psymon » Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:57 pm

Oh, that's good suggestion, PJ, to try to get the letter-spacing/line length, etc. to all match up nicely. I'd be surprised if I could match them up perfectly, but I can certainly try to get them close.

And yes, that's a great bit of "kerning examples" from Bikkhu! I have a couple text files like that -- I prefer using actual examples from writing (i.e. actual "sentences") to test things out, but those are great for catching all the rarer, odder character combinations that might ever come up, and I generally pore over my fonts to try to catch as many things as I can. 8)

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