Font only implementing one kerning interaction and not another

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Ahzoh
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Font only implementing one kerning interaction and not another

Post by Ahzoh »

The glyphs in question are A (the w-shaped letter) and La (the larger one of the two letters with a dot below)

As shown in the image, when there are no spaces between the letters, the font chooses to only render the A-A kerning interaction while not doing the A-La kerning interaction at all. Yet, if I put a space between the two A glyphs, then the A-La kerning interaction is rendered properly. I don't understand why it's doing then when similar unconnecting letters kern properly, even when there are two or more kerning pair interactions involved. For example in the image itself, the Ma-A and A-A kerning pair interactions are simultaneously being rendered. Moreover, in the bottommost example, the A-La kerning pair interaction does render along with the Ma-A kerning pair interaction, but only when one of the A glyphs is deleted.

I've tested and it doesn't have anything to do with the tester program.
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Erwin Denissen
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Re: Font only implementing one kerning interaction and not another

Post by Erwin Denissen »

Do let us know what the proofing dialog shows.
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Ahzoh
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Re: Font only implementing one kerning interaction and not another

Post by Ahzoh »

What is a "proofing dialogue"?
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Re: Font only implementing one kerning interaction and not another

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

Ahzoh wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 8:22 pm What is a "proofing dialogue"?
I presume that Erwin means the Font Test window (F5). Your screen shots show the Preview Toolbar.

There is another preview in the OpenType Features dialog.
My FontsReviews: MainTypeFont CreatorHelpFC15 + MT12.0 @ Win 10 64-bit build 19045.2486
Ahzoh
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Re: Font only implementing one kerning interaction and not another

Post by Ahzoh »

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 9:00 pm
Ahzoh wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 8:22 pm What is a "proofing dialogue"?
I presume that Erwin means the Font Test window (F5). Your screen shots show the Preview Toolbar.

There is another preview in the OpenType Features dialog.
Oh, well the Font Test Window doesn't display any of my open type features (such as calts) anyways, so I usually go to the Test WOFF one instead, and yea in there it's the same situation, same with on the website I upload my font to:
https://conworkshop.com/view_article.ph ... 3506072efa
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Re: Font only implementing one kerning interaction and not another

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

See here, in the OpenType dialog:
Proofing Dialog.png
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Ahzoh
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Re: Font only implementing one kerning interaction and not another

Post by Ahzoh »

I don't have those buttons. There is nothing to the left of the plus and minus signs.

However I do have "/Ma/A/La.init/Da.medi/Ka.fina" in the images above
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Re: Font only implementing one kerning interaction and not another

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

Which version are you using? My screenshot is from FontCreator 13.0.0.2683.
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Ahzoh
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Re: Font only implementing one kerning interaction and not another

Post by Ahzoh »

It is version 11.
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Re: Font only implementing one kerning interaction and not another

Post by Ahzoh »

I did more experimentation and this issue basically occurs with any letter that follows the two A-glyphs. The kerning is proper when any letter follows only one of the A-glpyhs, but not when it follows two. Additionally, it isn't just the A-glyphs doing this but also the Ma-glyphs, but strangely enough the Ra-glyphs seems to work fine.

And then I did even more testing and had learned that it seems like two of my three pair adjustment lookups must be corrupted or something. I have three separate kerning pair look ups for three of my glyphs, Ma, Ra, and A, because they do not have medial or initial forms, but only isolate and final forms, so they need kerning for proper spacing.

PairAdjustment1 is for all the letters involving letter Ra; PairAdjustment2 is for all the letters involving letter A; lastly, PairAdjustment3 is for all the letters involving letter Ma. I had names for each, but I loaded from a font which erased the custom names and I was too lazy to rename them all.

All three of them work normally when a letter follows one of each, but only PairAdjustment1 works for any letter following two or more of these special letters. This is strange and I don't know how or why this is possible.

EDIT:
oh, the root cause of all my issues is when I have kerning pairs for when the special letters are next to each other. I apparently cannot have e.g. Ma-Ma kerning pairs simultaneously with a Ma-La kerning pair, it will only do one or the other but not both. The solution then, seems solved if i have Ma-Ma etc. pairs in a fourth pair adjustment lookup beneath the others.
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Re: Font only implementing one kerning interaction and not another

Post by Erwin Denissen »

Since we have fixed numerous issues in FontCreator over the years, it is best to upgrade to the latest version. That solves many problems.

As explained in the user manual, with pair positioning you can set values for the second glyph, but it is recommended that you keep those values all at zero. If you do set any of those values to non-zero, the text layout engine will skip the next possible pair for adjustment, which is usually not what a font designer intends, or expects to happen.
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