Family Issues

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Psymon
Posts: 360
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:50 pm

Family Issues

Post by Psymon » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:35 pm

No, not that kind of family issues -- wrong forum for that. ;)

I don't know what to do about my font naming -- which came up elsewhere in another thread, with some great suggestions, but I've discovered that it leads to issues that I don't know what to do about.

I currently have a family of five fonts...

Alde Romanus
Alde Italick
Alde Paltrye Cappes
Alde Blacke Magick
Alde Night Cappes

I'll rename those here -- just for this thread -- just to make it little easier to understand what each are, thus...

Alde Regular
Alde Italic
Alde Smallcaps
Alde Blackletter
Alde Initials (decorative initials)

Now, I originally had them named only in the first "Identification" tab in the Font Properties dialogue, with the "Extended" tab just left blank, but then they weren't "related together" as a family, of course. For one thing, if I was using the regular font and just selected some text and told it to be italic, then it wouldn't give me the actual italic version, but instead gave me a yucky faux italic one created on-the-fly by the software.

And so, thanks to that other thread, I learned how to "relate them" together as a family via the advanced properties tab.

That worked out GREAT when using my fonts in software like Photoshop, where I then had a single entry for "Alde" in the font list, and then a second drop-down box for the 5 different fonts -- and if/when I was using the regular and wanted italic, it actually showed up as the correct font (not a faux version). Yay! :)

But then when I used my fonts in other not-quite-so-typographically-capabable software (like a simple email message or something), I discovered that in my font listing was only shown "Alde" -- and that gave me the blackletter version, not the regular (I guess it just picked whichever "Alde" font was first in the list, alphabetically).

And that's no good -- I don't want my fonts to be only practical for use by people with high-end design software, of course, but by anyone.

So then I switched all my names back again to how they were before, deleting all the info in the "Extended" tab -- except for just the regular and italic, if only so that they could be related together and if/when you wanted the italic version (while using the regular) then you got the actual italic font, not the faux italic.

In my email program, that way actually works just fine! In my font listing in there, I see all 5 of my fonts listed, and if/when I tell something to be italic, it's the actual italic font -- but not so now in Photoshop! In Photoshop, in the font listing I have "Alde" listed, and instead of seeing the regular and italic listed in there, and then an additional, separate listing for the other 3 fonts, the complete opposite is true. What I get is a main listing for "Alde" which then has a separate drop-down box for regular, smallcaps, blackletter and initials, and then a separate "main" listing for my italic font. That is, I would have thought that you would end up seeing something sort-of like this...

Alde
--- Regular
--- Italic
Alde Blackletter
Alde Initials
Alde Smallcaps

...but instead what you get is this(!)...

Alde
--- Blackletter
--- Initials
--- Regular
--- Smallcaps
Alde Italic

Like I said, that's the complete opposite of what I thought would happen! And on top of that, in Photoshop if I tell something to be italic, I now get the faux version in there, not the actual italic font (despite my reg. and ital. being related together as a family!). :shock:

I don't understand that -- and now I just don't know what to do about naming my fonts. :(

Surely this must be an issue that's come up before, with other font families that others have created? How does one get the naming right for a set of fonts like this so that (a) the italic shows up when it's supposed to, and (b) that you can actually get a listing of ALL the fonts regardless of what software one is using? I don't even care at this point whether they're all listed as "Alde" and then with a separate drop-down for the 5 variations, or if they show up as 5 different fonts -- I just want them to actually show up in one's list of available fonts (regardless of software) AND for the reg./ital. to work correctly.

Any suggestions?

MikeW
Posts: 589
Joined: Mon May 20, 2013 2:51 pm

Re: Family Issues

Post by MikeW » Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:41 pm

It may be the Adobe font caches causing the issue in PS. Do a search for what files to globally find and delete. Without an Adobe application running, of course.

Then try running PS again.

Mike

Psymon
Posts: 360
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:50 pm

Re: Family Issues

Post by Psymon » Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:45 pm

MikeW wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:41 pm
It may be the Adobe font caches causing the issue in PS. Do a search for what files to globally find and delete. Without an Adobe application running, of course.

Then try running PS again.
No, that's definitely not it, as I quite regularly reinstall my fonts and PS updates things no problem (you just have to close/restart PS each time in-between reinstalling the fonts, that's all).

MikeW
Posts: 589
Joined: Mon May 20, 2013 2:51 pm

Re: Family Issues

Post by MikeW » Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:01 pm

If you say so.

Adobe applications do cache font information.

If you would like, I would review the fonts. If it isn't the cache you've done something wrong.

Psymon
Posts: 360
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:50 pm

Re: Family Issues

Post by Psymon » Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:11 pm

MikeW wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:01 pm
If you say so.

Adobe applications do cache font information.
Yeah, but I've never had any issue like this before. :(
If you would like, I would review the fonts. If it isn't the cache you've done something wrong.

Sure! I was going to make sure you got a set of them anyway, since you've been so kindly following my efforts for all these years now and been so helpful with a variety of things. :)

How do I send them to you? I can't seem to figure out where/how to add an attachment to a private message here. Send me a PM regarding that, if that's easier/better.

Psymon
Posts: 360
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:50 pm

Re: Family Issues

Post by Psymon » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:31 pm

Thanks SO much to MikeW for taking a look at my fonts and resolving this issue for me! I already thanked you privately, of course, but just wanted to do so here, too, and explain what the issue was (in case perhaps anyone else encounters it).

As it turns out, the problem wasn't with all 5 of my fonts, but just the regular and italic. In the first tab ("Identification") of the Font Properties dialogue I had named them with their full names, i.e. "Alde Romanus" and "Alde Italick," but I should have just called them both simply "Alde" instead. I still use my more antiquated names "Romanus" and "Italick" in the sub-family field on the second tab ("Extended"), but not in the first.

Everything seems to work perfectly now! In an email (and presumably any other more basic program) in the font listing I have "Alde," which effectively includes both the regular and italic, and then the other 3 fonts listed, while in Photoshop I get just a single listing for "Alde," and then a dropdown box for all 5 of my fonts (using those antiquated names).

Perfect! I'm thrilled! I'm still contemplating adding in one or two additional features, but if I were to forego those (they're not "necessary") methinks I could actually start putting my fonts out there in the world. Woohoo! :lol:

Thanks so much once again, Mike! :D

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