Font issue in Word 2016

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AdamZane
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Font issue in Word 2016

Post by AdamZane » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:55 pm

I am hoping there is some way you can suggest I tweak my font to resolve an issue.

I created a symbol font, which installed on Windows computers with no problem, and has worked quite well on Microsoft Office 2010 products like Word and Excel. All of the symbols also show quite clearly on the Windows charmap.

This font has a number of symbols installed in the higher area of the font. That is, to access them you need to ALT + the number of the symbol. All of those ALT symbols also work quite well in Office 2010 products.

I recently installed Office 365 to my computer, and when I use this font in a Word 365 document, some of the ALT symbols do not show up; only blank spaces. Yet I verified the symbols still show in the Windows charmap. The ALT symbols also show in Excel 365, and Powerpoint 365.

So what I am asking is: is there anything I can do to modify those higher level symbols on this font so they appear in this latest version of Word?

My computer is Windows 10; I use Font Creator 11 Standard.

I will be happy to send a copy of the font to someone for review if that will help.

Thank you

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Re: Font issue in Word 2016

Post by Erwin Denissen » Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:38 pm

I'm afraid I'm not able to help.

I'm sure you've read the manual; especially the part about symbol fonts. But just to be sure here is a summary:

Symbol fonts are legacy; we recommend designing a Unicode font instead. If there are code-points assigned for your characters, then use them, otherwise use the private use area.

All of the characters in the Unicode range 0xF000 - 0xF0FF (inclusive) will be used to enumerate the symbol character set, but only the first 224 characters of symbol fonts will be accessible.
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Re: Font issue in Word 2016

Post by William » Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:30 pm

Firstly, I do not have Word 2016 or the other software packages that you mention. Also I am using FontCreator 8. I am using Windiws 10.

So I cannot directly try the problem here.

However, it might be that I can help with the underlying problem and you could if you wish then try the suggestion and test whether it works.

I never liked Symbol fonts. I like fonts with symbols in them, but not what are termed Symbol fonts.

As I understand it, Symbol fonts amount to a solution to a problem.

In an ordinary font - sometimes called a Unicode font - a particular glyph is associated with a particular code point.

For example, there is a code point (a whole number, often expressed in hexadecimal notation) for a letter E and the cell for that code point will have an image of a letter E. Maybe with serifs, maybe without serifs, maybe italic, of whatever design is desired, like pop, antique, ornate.

In a Unicode font, if one wants a symbol, then there are two ways to go. If the symbol is encoded in Unicode, then use that code point. If the symbol is not encoded in Unicode, then use the Private Use Area.

For example, a Comet is encoded in regular Unicode, a symbol to mean "Best regards," is not encoded in regular Unicode.

That is the way to do it today.

Now suppose however that one wants a font whereby one can type an E on the keyboard and on the screen appears a picture of, say, a daffodil.

There is nothing to stop anyone making such a non-standard font. Such fonts can be useful in some situations.

But that is non-standard!

This is where a Symbol font comes in.

In the Symbol font, internally to the font the glyphs are mapped to some of the code points within the Unicode Private Use Area, yet in use the glyphs are accessed by typing a key on the keyboard as if the glyphs were mapped to the code points of the keyboard characters.

The question was asked.

> So what I am asking is: is there anything I can do to modify those higher level symbols on this font so they appear in this latest version of Word?

It seems to me that the best approach would be to start a new font that is not a symbol font, and then copy the glyphs but not the code points from the Symbol font to the new font, placing each glyph either somewhere in the regular Unicode character map or in the Private Use Area as appropriate depending upon whether that glyph represents a character that is encoded in regular Unicode.

There is a facility to convert from a Symbol font to a Unicode font. It is accessed from Tools Convert Font.

Now I have not tried that and maybe that would work, but my instinct is to start a new font and copy the glyphs yet not the code points and then you know that you have started yourself.

It is not always clear what level of knowledge and which particular items of knowledge someoe who asks a question has.

So if you do not know about the Private Use Area please say so and then I and maybe others can try to answer your questions. However, as it is possible that you are already knowledgable about the Private Use Area I shall not write about the details of it in this particular post.

I hope that this helps.

William

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Re: Font issue in Word 2016

Post by Alfred » Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:17 pm

William wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:30 pm
Now suppose however that one wants a font whereby one can type an E on the keyboard and on the screen appears a picture of, say, a daffodil.

There is nothing to stop anyone making such a non-standard font. Such fonts can be useful in some situations.

But that is non-standard!

This is where a Symbol font comes in.
Pretty much any modern ‘dingbats’ font that I’ve ever come across has been a standard Unicode font rather than a Symbol font, but with glyphs specially designed to suit the purpose of the font. For example, the stem of your daffodil could represent the stem of an ‘f’, with the flowers representing the terminal and the crossbar.
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AdamZane
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Re: Font issue in Word 2016

Post by AdamZane » Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:56 am

Thank you.
Yes, I have read the manual.
Several of the glyphs on the font look better when I created a symbol font, than when I converted it to a unicode font. So I have tried the latter, and went back to symbol.

It is very much a mystery why some glyphs work in Word 2010 but not in Word 2016

I also posted my query on a Microsoft site and they were not able to assist either. Apparently, though, there have been several other issues with fonts on Word 2016 so mine is just one of a number of issues.

I will just have to continue using Word 2010 for now, and if at some point SOMEONE can figure out how to get all the glyphs to work on 2016 start using it at that point.

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Re: Font issue in Word 2016

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:38 am

AdamZane wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:56 am
Several of the glyphs on the font look better when I created a symbol font, than when I converted it to a Unicode font. So I have tried the latter, and went back to symbol.
Changing from Symbol to Unicode will not alter the appearance of the glyphs, just their encoding.
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AdamZane
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Re: Font issue in Word 2016

Post by AdamZane » Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:16 am

Changing from symbol to unicode change the spacing between the glyphs. I had the spacing just exactly the way I needed it, but when I changed to unicode, and then installed the revised font...it changed the spacing moving some glyphs much closer together.

So no, the glyphs did not look different, but I would have had to work on the spacing all over again to get the unicode version to space correctly.

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Re: Font issue in Word 2016

Post by Erwin Denissen » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:46 am

The conversion between symbol and Unicode should not alter the side-bearings. So the space between characters should remain the same.

If you want more help, then do show us examples, or send us the files.
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Re: Font issue in Word 2016

Post by AdamZane » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:41 pm

comparison.JPG
comparison.JPG (44.01 KiB) Viewed 2396 times
Here is a sample of the text comparing the two versions of the font. Note the space between the first and second symbol in the two images, they are closer together in the second grouping than the first grouping.

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Re: Font issue in Word 2016

Post by Alfred » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:11 am

AdamZane wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:41 pm
Note the space between the first and second symbol in the two images, they are closer together in the second grouping than the first grouping.
The Mercury, Venus and Mars symbols are considerably farther apart in the second grouping.
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Re: Font issue in Word 2016

Post by PJMiller » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:31 am

It is possible to alter the side bearings in a unicode font! :D

You can set them to be as close or as far apart as you want. :lol:

AdamZane
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Re: Font issue in Word 2016

Post by AdamZane » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:29 am

Alfred wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:11 am
AdamZane wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:41 pm
Note the space between the first and second symbol in the two images, they are closer together in the second grouping than the first grouping.
The Mercury, Venus and Mars symbols are considerably farther apart in the second grouping.
Yes. But the spacing of the symbol font is the way I want it, and I did not have to change each character's spacing to get it to look like that.
The Unicode is inconsistently different spacing.

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Re: Font issue in Word 2016

Post by Erwin Denissen » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:54 pm

It seems something is wrong with the font. Can you send me the original font so I can look into this?
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AdamZane
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Re: Font issue in Word 2016

Post by AdamZane » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:53 am

Here is the font as symbol font. All glyphs work fine, even those using the ALT + number, on Word 2010. Some of the glyphs do not work on Word 2016.
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Centaurs.ttf
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Re: Font issue in Word 2016

Post by Erwin Denissen » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:35 am

The Unicode font shows exactly the same as your Symbol font when I test it in Word 2016. Can you also share the Unicode font, so I can look into it as well?
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