commercial purposes

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wcb@wcb1.com
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commercial purposes

Post by wcb@wcb1.com » Thu Dec 31, 2009 6:49 pm

FontCreator Home Edition can NOT be used for commercial purposes.
What defines using FontCreator Home Edition for commercial purposes?

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Re: commercial purposes

Post by Dave Crosby » Thu Dec 31, 2009 9:05 pm

As an external observer, my guess would be trying to sell copies of the software or perhaps selling the use of the software to others to make fonts in something like a computer cafe or store.
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Re: commercial purposes

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:10 pm

From the FAQ

Q: Can I share and sell fonts that I create with FontCreator or are there licensing implications?

A: If you have created a font yourself (without using anything from other fonts), it is your property. However be aware FontCreator Home Edition can NOT be used for commercial purposes. You have to buy the Professional Edition instead.

So, if you want to sell fonts that you create with FontCreator, you need the Professional Edition.
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Re: commercial purposes

Post by Erwin Denissen » Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:45 pm

If you (intend to) make money with fonts created or modified with FontCreator (even indirectly) then it is considered commercial use and you need to have the Professional Edition.
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Re: commercial purposes

Post by wcb@wcb1.com » Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:25 pm

So if I sell you a hammer that I designed and manufactured, I can require you to buy the $1000 commercial version if you use it to build flower boxes for resale?
Do I need the commercial version of the pens and pencils as well? And what about my scanner? It's crazy to sell me a tool, then tell me I can't use it build something that might be sold someday. I guess I won't be buying any version of your software any time soon.

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Re: commercial purposes

Post by vanisaac » Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:55 pm

No, he's asking you, at a point in time at which you decide to profit from his product, to support the proliferation of professional strength authoring software to the hobbyist and scholarly communities by purchasing a license that has the benefit of unlocking a number of automating and error-checking features that increases the value of the tool to you, especially in wide distribution. You get all this for a mere pittance in comparison to licenses for an equivalent tool, and this one comes with updates, upgrades, and online support from both a community of users and the programmer. To take your analogy, you buy the hammer, and in order to keep the costs as low as possible to make it available to as wide a community as possible, he asks that people selling their planters get the hammer that lets them automatically fill the nail holes as they go. That way, more people have access to hammers, and the planter box purchasers get the highest quality excecution of a given seller's planter box design as possible. It's not a thousand bucks, it's 125 for the upgrade, and the software remains usable for years (I'm coming up on 5 years of 5.x professional next week), with free upgrades to the next major version for a year, and free upgrades to minor versions forever, so you don't have buyer's remorse at getting the license before the next model comes out. Name any other operation that goes this far to balance the needs of customers, the community at large, and prospective second-level consumers. Given his clear conscientiousness, Erwin will always have my support, especially in regards to asking those making a profit from this tool to contribute back to the community of scholars and non-professionals whose access is assisted by the existence of a "home" edition. It would be a lot easier to just have the professional edition, and license everyone at that level...

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Re: commercial purposes

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:35 pm

The Professional version of FontCreator has several additional features to automate the production of fonts, which saves many hours for Professional users.

Take a good look at the Feature Comparison Chart

Some of Features Only Available in the Professional Edition

Complete Composites

Glyph Transformations

Insert Characters Feature

See this thread to see how much easier joining contours is in the Professional Edition using "Get Union of Contours."
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Re: commercial purposes

Post by wcb@wcb1.com » Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:25 pm

OK.So you've got a more advanced professional hammer with automated features which make it easier to manufacture professional boxes, which of course has a higher price tag, I understand that and I might even want to upgrade to it when business reaches a level at which the improved tool would be an advantage. What I object to is selling me a tool and calling it a "home" version and that I cannot sell anything that i create with it, even though you say "If you have created a font yourself (without using anything from other fonts), it is your property". Where do you get the right to tell me I can't sell my property unless I buy the advanced tool. If you don't want me to sell my property which I made with your home tool, why sell me the home tool in the first place? You sound like you are just trying to cash in on my hard work. When you sell me a tool, that you charge a price for, you do not have the right to tell me what I can do with my creations using the tool.

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Re: commercial purposes

Post by Erwin Denissen » Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:31 pm

In general software is licensed, not sold. So you don't own the software, but you buy a license that allows you to use the software under specific conditions. Such conditions are defined in an End User License Agreement (EULA).

The FontCreator EULA mentions you are not allowed to use fonts for commercial purposes if they are made with the Home Edition of FontCreator. There are several reasons why we decided to add this condition; vanisaac and Bhikkhu Pesala already explained most of them.
When you sell me a tool, that you charge a price for, you do not have the right to tell me what I can do with my creations using the tool.
If you don't (want to) agree to the terms of the EULA, then don't use the software.
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Re: commercial purposes

Post by William » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:19 am

Erwin Denissen wrote: If you don't (want to) agree to the terms of the EULA, then don't use the software.
I am not disagreeing with this statement.

Can someone who has the Home Edition publish fonts for free download, in any, some or all of Gallery Forum of this webspace, his or her own webspace or another webspace?

Whether someone buys the Home Edition or the Professional Edition depends upon two factors, one is paying money and receiving a code, the other depends upon the purchaser's honour.
Erwin Denissen wrote:If you (intend to) make money with fonts created or modified with FontCreator (even indirectly) then it is considered commercial use and you need to have the Professional Edition.
So, in relation to buying the Professional Edition in order to get the right to try to make money, even indirectly, it appears that a person must buy the Professional Edition once he or she wants to try to make money eventually.

Here is a scenario.

Suppose that someone is out of work, perhaps due to the recession, and decides that he or she would like to try to learn to make fonts and then make a font and then send it to one of the major type suppliers hoping that the major type supplier will accept the font and add it to the major type supplier's range, thereby leading to an income and possibly other opportunities. At what stage does the person need to upgrade to having the Professional Edition? Please note that in this scenario the major type supplier may well simply respond with a polite letter regretting that the font has not been accepted for inclusion in the major type supplier's range. However, the person does not know that at the time and, being out of work, is doing whatever he or she can to try to make progress.

Another scenario.

Suppose that someone is out of work, perhaps due to the recession, and decides that he or she would like to try to learn to make fonts. Later, some people he or she knows are starting a band and making a demo CD to send to a recording company. If the person wants to make a distinctive font for the band and wants to let them have it free with the agreed understanding that if the band get accepted by the recording company and if the band then persuades the recording company to use the font in the artwork for the band, with a royalty to the person who made the font, at what stage does the person need to upgrade to the Professional Edition?

It is Erwin's right to decide upon the terms of the licensing of the program. However, an improvement, in my opinion, would be that, as Erwin is relying upon the honour of the purchaser, that the requirement to upgrade to the commercial version applies as now for businesses, yet only applies for individuals once money twice as much as the upgrade fee from Home Edition to Professional Edition has actually been received either directly or indirectly.

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Re: commercial purposes

Post by wcb@wcb1.com » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:49 am

I think that any font I create is my intellectual property, regardless of the tool I use to create it. The creator of the tool has no right to tell me what I can or cannot do with my intellectual property. I can create the design for a font using pen and paper. Does his give the manufacturer of the pen and paper the right to tel me what I can or cannot do with the design?
Absolutely not. EULA? Of course. If I agree to the thing, then I'm bound by that agreement. So here's my suggestion. Quit selling the home edition. Since you don't want anyone to use the fonts created with the home edition, don't sell it in the first place. I'll tell you what. If i buy the home edition, create a fantastic font, use it in a video, or image, I will sell the video or image as I see fit. The video or image is mine to do with as I please, and no EULA in the world will hold up in court against it. What if I create a font on my computer and my son or my wife decide to start a Photography business and design a logo using the font on my computer? It might be a year or two before the photography business takes off and actually makes a profit. Look all this is about is that I just thing it's selfish, greedy, and totally out of line for any company to sell me a tool and think they can dictate what I do with my creations using that tool, which is why I will not buy the tool until the company backs down or until I can afford to buy the tool some where else. I would rather use this tool because it serems to be a better tool than the others, I just cannot come to grips with the EULA.

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Re: commercial purposes

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:34 pm

wcb@wcb1.com wrote:Since you don't want anyone to use the fonts created with the home edition, don't sell it in the first place.
This is nonsense! Anyone using the Home Edition can use any fonts that they create with it, give them away to friends, or offer them for free download. If they wish to sell fonts (commercial use) then they need the professional edition.

If a Home Edition user changes their mind at a later stage, they can upgrade in order to start selling the fonts.

I may be wrong, but I don't think the commercial use restriction extends to using your own fonts in commercial products, just to selling the fonts. You're selling the books or the videos, not the font.
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Re: commercial purposes

Post by Erwin Denissen » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:04 pm

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:I may be wrong, but I don't think the commercial use restriction extends to using your own fonts in commercial products, just to selling the fonts. You're selling the books or the videos, not the font.
The home edition can't be used for commercial purposes. So if you want to make a font and use it to create a birthday invitation that you are going to send to your family and friends, then the home edition will do, but if you want to use the font for direct mail marketing postcards/campaigns then you need the professional edition.
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Re: commercial purposes

Post by wcb@wcb1.com » Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:23 pm

Bingo! There's the rub! Greedy Bast***s!

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Re: commercial purposes

Post by Erwin Denissen » Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:49 pm

Too bad you still miss the point. I understand you don't want to agree to the EULA for the home edition, and you don't want to pay for a license for the professional edition. That's clearly not our problem, so please don't bother us with your frustration.
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